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Given in the UK doctors have taken a real terms paycut circa of over 25% [0] the UK is not currently fit to fund anything. [0] https://www.bma.org.uk/media/688

Given in the UK doctors have taken a real terms paycut circa of over 25% [0] the UK is not currently fit to fund anything. [0] https://www.bma.org.uk/media/6882/bma-ia-juniors-fact-sheet-for-journalists.pdf https://www.bma.org.uk/media/6882/bma-ia-juniors-fact-sheet-...

fnordpiglet 3y ago
Except this sort of funding has multiplicative effects. Funding for a single doctor helps only that doctor and their patients. Funding for this sort of work helps all doctors and all patients. When austerity cannibalizes your force multiplying efforts, that’s truly the end. Edit: For context the thing you linked says UK medical residents (in US language) make $36k/year, and the median household income is also $36k/y[0] . In the US the average non specialist income is $60k[1], and the median household income is $69k[2] This tells me things aren’t out of whack. They also say 40% of residents in the UK want a different job. But residencies are temporary. In a few years they will have a new job - a full doctor. I’m not saying there’s not a crisis, but that sheet doesn’t explain to me what the crisis actually is. They seem to be doing on par with US residents. 0 https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/personalandhouseholdfinances/incomeandwealth/bulletins/householddisposableincomeandinequality/financialyear2020 https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/personal... 1 https://mededits.com/residency-admissions/residency-salary/ https://mededits.com/residency-admissions/residency-salary/ 2 https://www.deptofnumbers.com/income/us/ https://www.deptofnumbers.com/income/us/
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- psychphysic 3y ago
  What's the difference in pay between a "full doctor" as you put it consultant (UK) or attending (US)? UK a consultant earns £100k pretax and pays approximately 30% net tax rate and 60% marginal rate. What about US? Apparently family medicine in the US brings in 130% more than the equivalent in the UK (GP which makes up half of all UK doctors). https://revisingrubies.com/us-vs-uk-doctors-salary/ https://revisingrubies.com/us-vs-uk-doctors-salary/ That's truly astounding.
  - fnordpiglet 3y ago
    https://www.salary.com/research/salary/benchmark/physician-internal-medicine-salary https://www.salary.com/research/salary/benchmark/physician-i... $230k, which when indexed by median household income, is comparable to the UK at 100k (I assume you used dollars? If not that’s $126k). Edit: I’m not making any tax statements because taxes are unavoidable and applied to everyone in the nation, so are part of the indexing. That said US taxes sound comparable or more in some areas (taxes in NYC for instance can exceed 50%)
    - SoftTalker 3y ago
      > taxes in NYC for instance can exceed 50% Is that a marginal rate or total tax burden?
      - fnordpiglet 3y ago
        Total, it’s a combination of federal, state, and city income tax plus social security etc.
  - cabalamat 3y ago
    > UK a consultant earns £100k pretax and pays approximately 30% net tax rate and 60% marginal rate. According to https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/tax-calculator/ https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/tax-calculator/ , someone in the UK who earns £100k takes home £67,049: >Earn £100,000 in 2023/24 and you'll take home £67,049. This means £5,587 in your pocket a month. Over the year you'll pay £27,432 income tax and £5,519 in national insurance.
  - robertlagrant 3y ago
    Consultants also get a guaranteed pension funded by the net-contributing taxpayers.
  - fnordpiglet 3y ago
    However the median household income is half the US. You can’t compare nominal values.

fnordpiglet 3y ago

Except this sort of funding has multiplicative effects. Funding for a single doctor helps only that doctor and their patients. Funding for this sort of work helps all doctors and all patients. When austerity cannibalizes your force multiplying efforts, that’s truly the end. Edit: For context the thing you linked says UK medical residents (in US language) make $36k/year, and the median household income is also $36k/y[0] . In the US the average non specialist income is $60k[1], and the median household income is $69k[2] This tells me things aren’t out of whack. They also say 40% of residents in the UK want a different job. But residencies are temporary. In a few years they will have a new job - a full doctor. I’m not saying there’s not a crisis, but that sheet doesn’t explain to me what the crisis actually is. They seem to be doing on par with US residents. 0 https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/personalandhouseholdfinances/incomeandwealth/bulletins/householddisposableincomeandinequality/financialyear2020 https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/personal... 1 https://mededits.com/residency-admissions/residency-salary/ https://mededits.com/residency-admissions/residency-salary/ 2 https://www.deptofnumbers.com/income/us/ https://www.deptofnumbers.com/income/us/

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
psychphysic 3y ago
What's the difference in pay between a "full doctor" as you put it consultant (UK) or attending (US)? UK a consultant earns £100k pretax and pays approximately 30% net tax rate and 60% marginal rate. What about US? Apparently family medicine in the US brings in 130% more than the equivalent in the UK (GP which makes up half of all UK doctors). https://revisingrubies.com/us-vs-uk-doctors-salary/ https://revisingrubies.com/us-vs-uk-doctors-salary/ That's truly astounding.
- fnordpiglet 3y ago
  https://www.salary.com/research/salary/benchmark/physician-internal-medicine-salary https://www.salary.com/research/salary/benchmark/physician-i... $230k, which when indexed by median household income, is comparable to the UK at 100k (I assume you used dollars? If not that’s $126k). Edit: I’m not making any tax statements because taxes are unavoidable and applied to everyone in the nation, so are part of the indexing. That said US taxes sound comparable or more in some areas (taxes in NYC for instance can exceed 50%)
  - SoftTalker 3y ago
    > taxes in NYC for instance can exceed 50% Is that a marginal rate or total tax burden?
    - fnordpiglet 3y ago
      Total, it’s a combination of federal, state, and city income tax plus social security etc.
- cabalamat 3y ago
  > UK a consultant earns £100k pretax and pays approximately 30% net tax rate and 60% marginal rate. According to https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/tax-calculator/ https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/tax-calculator/ , someone in the UK who earns £100k takes home £67,049: >Earn £100,000 in 2023/24 and you'll take home £67,049. This means £5,587 in your pocket a month. Over the year you'll pay £27,432 income tax and £5,519 in national insurance.
- robertlagrant 3y ago
  Consultants also get a guaranteed pension funded by the net-contributing taxpayers.
- fnordpiglet 3y ago
  However the median household income is half the US. You can’t compare nominal values.