4 ms·

My grandparents didn't forget. In late February 2020 I brought up the topic of the novel coronavirus going around and they weren't overly worried because they'd

by h11h 3y ago

My grandparents didn't forget. In late February 2020 I brought up the topic of the novel coronavirus going around and they weren't overly worried because they'd gone through a respiratory pandemic or two before (there was another one in 1968). I think covid will be more memorable, partly because it was more serious, but also because our reaction to it was much stronger, especially in some parts of the world. My understanding is that there were generally only minimal efforts at containing those flu pandemics. Incidentally, my grandparents also had time off school because of the polio epidemic. That said, the Spanish flu, the last respiratory pandemic comparable to covid (actually, worse) isn't remembered well. I wouldn't be surprised if most people have heard of it only because of covid.

INTPenis 3y ago
I think my parents told me about the 68 one, it was somewhere around 1970 to them, and in Sweden it was colloquially known as the "Hong Kong flu"[1]. What all this tells me is that if you study history you'll notice interesting patterns. 1. https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hongkonginfluensan https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hongkonginfluensan
- jeroenhd 3y ago
  I think it's obvious that Asian countries will be the source of most epidemics because that's where most of the world lives. I wouldn't be surprised if the next major epidemic comes from India, as that's the most populous country (though Indian's relatively large percentage of vegetarians and selective meat eaters should help prevent common infection patterns). The Spanish flu (misleadingly named as it was first recorded in Kansas and only later reported in Europe) is kind of an outlier here, as was the Mexican swine flu.
  - dividedbyzero 3y ago
    > ... comes from India, as that's the second most populous country Actually it's the most populous country now
    - jeroenhd 3y ago
      You're right; I've edited my comment.
rPlayer6554 3y ago
One of the problems with the Spanish flu was governments covered it up. It didn't start in Spain, Spain just had better freedom of the press and newspapers could talk about it. That's where it got the name.
- kibwen 3y ago
  In fact the Spanish Flu is often considered to have begun in Kentucky; might as well call it the American Flu.
  - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
    >might as well call it the American Flu Ameriflu
    - mcronce 3y ago
      > Ameriflu™ by Bayer® FTFY
  - api 3y ago
    Never heard that. If it began in Kentucky where did it come from? There are lots of caves in Kentucky so bats again? They seem like a reservoir species for a lot of respiratory viruses in this family.
    - nradov 3y ago
      The 1918 influenza pandemic strain is suspected to have evolved in domestic swine and/or fowl, but it's impossible to be certain.
  - danesparza 3y ago
    The most widely cited theory is that the 1918 influenza pandemic originated in Haskell County, Kansas in early 1918. Some key details: Haskell County is a rural county in southwest Kansas, about 300 miles west of Kansas City. In January and February 1918, local newspapers reported an unusual flu-like illness spreading in the county. This pre-dated flu reports from other U.S. areas by several weeks. Dr. Loring Miner, a physician in Haskell County, observed this early outbreak and alerted the U.S. Public Health Service. He described an unusual respiratory illness that was spreading rapidly, but milder than the flu pandemic strain that emerged later. Haskell County residents were known to have traveled to Camp Funston in Fort Riley, Kansas in February and March 1918. In March, Camp Funston reported a severe flu outbreak, followed by rapid spread of flu across the U.S. and globally over the following year. Leading researchers like John Barry, author of "The Great Influenza", have concluded that the timing and pattern of these outbreaks strongly points to the virus originating in Haskell County and spreading from there to Camp Funston. However, it's not definitive. Without viral samples and genetic sequencing from that era, the precise geographic origin cannot be proven. But the Haskell County theory provides the strongest evidence based on historical timelines and early outbreak patterns.
dotnet00 3y ago
I'd say it'll also be more memorable because there's petabytes of fine grained data of people living through it. So even with decay over time, there should be more info on it that survives than from the Spanish Flu.
hotpotamus 3y ago
My great great Aunt told me about the Spanish Flu as a child - there was a family story that one of her relatives defied his family's requests not to go to a dance, and then brought it home with him resulting in the deaths of a few of them. Interestingly, my great great grandfather's first wife died from the Spanish Flu, and he remarried in his 50's and had more children (my line), so if not for that pandemic, then I would presumably would not be here.
pottertheotter 3y ago
I always assumed that people knew a fair bit about the Spanish flu, but maybe that’s due to my family history. My great-grandparents died of the Spanish flu, leaving my one-year-old grandfather and his older siblings as orphans. His birth parents were Swedish immigrants, and he was adopted by an American family. The change in surname is a marker of the event that stays with the family every day.
Aloha 3y ago
My great grandmother did remember the Spanish flu, though it was hazy gauzy fragmentary sorts of memories much like my remembrance of the fall of the Berlin Wall or the first gulf war. She was born in 1909, and I was asking her about it in 2001 or 2002.
jakubmazanec 3y ago
> the Spanish flu, the last respiratory pandemic comparable to covid (actually, worse) isn't remembered well Weird, I think the opposite: I learned about it in high school history class (in a gymnasium in Czechia, so maybe it's not commonly taught).
adrianmonk 3y ago
Mine didn't forget either. My grandmother almost died of it as a child. She was sent to a sick ward where patients were seen as a lost cause and not much care was provided. If you survived, good for you. Or if not, too bad but no surprise. She was there for a long time but eventually her body fought it off. Also, all her hair fell out. Apparently this can happen with high fevers. When she went back to school, she wore a hat so she wouldn't get teased about her bald head.
anovikov 3y ago
Even in Soviet Russia, when things were so dire people used to die in scores for a multitude of reasons in a country that was defeated in WWI, ravaged by revolutionary and counter-revolutionary gangs of all sort, with epidemics of cholera, typhus, and multitude of other diseases running entirely unchecked due to complete collapse of all institutions of organised society, the Spanish flu is remembered. Not as a "worst thing ever" it was in the U.S., but it is remembered.
cout 3y ago
I've heard of it because of the Squirrel Nut Zippers song La Grippe, which for a long time I (indirectly) supposed was about the Spanish Flu (https://americanahighways.org/2020/04/06/video-premiere-squirrel-nut-zippers-la-grippe/amp/ https://americanahighways.org/2020/04/06/video-premiere-squi...): There's a flu bug getting passed around Spreading like fire through this town There's a virus holing up inside us Each one that I know is coming down There's an Asian influenza Infecting us all by the scores And it's turning into pneumonia We must go out once more There's a fool moon howling at the night And each bark is much worse than each bite So we must go out and dance around Yes we must go tonight So the doctors came on the evening train With their flasks and their caskets and vials Mass psychosis was their diagnosis (yes) So we all cashed our checks and went wild There's a fool moon howling at the night And each bark is much worse than each bite So we must go out and dance around Yes we must go tonight La Grippe!, Salsa!
incanus77 3y ago
My grandfather lost his mother when he was 10, in 1919. Despite going deep into family history research for decades, and talking about so much of it with him before he passed at 97 almost 20 years ago, I only learned in 2021 that she died from the Spanish flu, offhandedly from a family member. What a strange black hole of recollection.
JambalayaJim 3y ago
The Spanish Flu is well known where I live (Canada) - because WW1 is a largest part of our history curriculum.
Gibbon1 3y ago
I was born after the polio epidemic and after the measles vaccine. But those things were still fresh in the minds of adults and teens. I remember getting vaccinated in the school cafeteria for the Hong Cong Flu. Kid in front of me who was a peckerhead had a complete meltdown and had to be held down in a chair by a couple of public health nurses.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

by h11h 3y ago

INTPenis 3y ago

I think my parents told me about the 68 one, it was somewhere around 1970 to them, and in Sweden it was colloquially known as the "Hong Kong flu"[1]. What all this tells me is that if you study history you'll notice interesting patterns. 1. https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hongkonginfluensan https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hongkonginfluensan

jeroenhd 3y ago
I think it's obvious that Asian countries will be the source of most epidemics because that's where most of the world lives. I wouldn't be surprised if the next major epidemic comes from India, as that's the most populous country (though Indian's relatively large percentage of vegetarians and selective meat eaters should help prevent common infection patterns). The Spanish flu (misleadingly named as it was first recorded in Kansas and only later reported in Europe) is kind of an outlier here, as was the Mexican swine flu.
- dividedbyzero 3y ago
  > ... comes from India, as that's the second most populous country Actually it's the most populous country now
  - jeroenhd 3y ago
    You're right; I've edited my comment.

rPlayer6554 3y ago

One of the problems with the Spanish flu was governments covered it up. It didn't start in Spain, Spain just had better freedom of the press and newspapers could talk about it. That's where it got the name.

kibwen 3y ago
In fact the Spanish Flu is often considered to have begun in Kentucky; might as well call it the American Flu.
- FirmwareBurner 3y ago
  >might as well call it the American Flu Ameriflu
  - mcronce 3y ago
    > Ameriflu™ by Bayer® FTFY
- api 3y ago
  Never heard that. If it began in Kentucky where did it come from? There are lots of caves in Kentucky so bats again? They seem like a reservoir species for a lot of respiratory viruses in this family.
  - nradov 3y ago
    The 1918 influenza pandemic strain is suspected to have evolved in domestic swine and/or fowl, but it's impossible to be certain.
- danesparza 3y ago
  The most widely cited theory is that the 1918 influenza pandemic originated in Haskell County, Kansas in early 1918. Some key details: Haskell County is a rural county in southwest Kansas, about 300 miles west of Kansas City. In January and February 1918, local newspapers reported an unusual flu-like illness spreading in the county. This pre-dated flu reports from other U.S. areas by several weeks. Dr. Loring Miner, a physician in Haskell County, observed this early outbreak and alerted the U.S. Public Health Service. He described an unusual respiratory illness that was spreading rapidly, but milder than the flu pandemic strain that emerged later. Haskell County residents were known to have traveled to Camp Funston in Fort Riley, Kansas in February and March 1918. In March, Camp Funston reported a severe flu outbreak, followed by rapid spread of flu across the U.S. and globally over the following year. Leading researchers like John Barry, author of "The Great Influenza", have concluded that the timing and pattern of these outbreaks strongly points to the virus originating in Haskell County and spreading from there to Camp Funston. However, it's not definitive. Without viral samples and genetic sequencing from that era, the precise geographic origin cannot be proven. But the Haskell County theory provides the strongest evidence based on historical timelines and early outbreak patterns.

dotnet00 3y ago

I'd say it'll also be more memorable because there's petabytes of fine grained data of people living through it. So even with decay over time, there should be more info on it that survives than from the Spanish Flu.

hotpotamus 3y ago

My great great Aunt told me about the Spanish Flu as a child - there was a family story that one of her relatives defied his family's requests not to go to a dance, and then brought it home with him resulting in the deaths of a few of them. Interestingly, my great great grandfather's first wife died from the Spanish Flu, and he remarried in his 50's and had more children (my line), so if not for that pandemic, then I would presumably would not be here.

pottertheotter 3y ago

I always assumed that people knew a fair bit about the Spanish flu, but maybe that’s due to my family history. My great-grandparents died of the Spanish flu, leaving my one-year-old grandfather and his older siblings as orphans. His birth parents were Swedish immigrants, and he was adopted by an American family. The change in surname is a marker of the event that stays with the family every day.

Aloha 3y ago

My great grandmother did remember the Spanish flu, though it was hazy gauzy fragmentary sorts of memories much like my remembrance of the fall of the Berlin Wall or the first gulf war. She was born in 1909, and I was asking her about it in 2001 or 2002.

jakubmazanec 3y ago

> the Spanish flu, the last respiratory pandemic comparable to covid (actually, worse) isn't remembered well Weird, I think the opposite: I learned about it in high school history class (in a gymnasium in Czechia, so maybe it's not commonly taught).

adrianmonk 3y ago

Mine didn't forget either. My grandmother almost died of it as a child. She was sent to a sick ward where patients were seen as a lost cause and not much care was provided. If you survived, good for you. Or if not, too bad but no surprise. She was there for a long time but eventually her body fought it off. Also, all her hair fell out. Apparently this can happen with high fevers. When she went back to school, she wore a hat so she wouldn't get teased about her bald head.

anovikov 3y ago

Even in Soviet Russia, when things were so dire people used to die in scores for a multitude of reasons in a country that was defeated in WWI, ravaged by revolutionary and counter-revolutionary gangs of all sort, with epidemics of cholera, typhus, and multitude of other diseases running entirely unchecked due to complete collapse of all institutions of organised society, the Spanish flu is remembered. Not as a "worst thing ever" it was in the U.S., but it is remembered.

cout 3y ago

I've heard of it because of the Squirrel Nut Zippers song La Grippe, which for a long time I (indirectly) supposed was about the Spanish Flu (https://americanahighways.org/2020/04/06/video-premiere-squirrel-nut-zippers-la-grippe/amp/ https://americanahighways.org/2020/04/06/video-premiere-squi...): There's a flu bug getting passed around Spreading like fire through this town There's a virus holing up inside us Each one that I know is coming down There's an Asian influenza Infecting us all by the scores And it's turning into pneumonia We must go out once more There's a fool moon howling at the night And each bark is much worse than each bite So we must go out and dance around Yes we must go tonight So the doctors came on the evening train With their flasks and their caskets and vials Mass psychosis was their diagnosis (yes) So we all cashed our checks and went wild There's a fool moon howling at the night And each bark is much worse than each bite So we must go out and dance around Yes we must go tonight La Grippe!, Salsa!

incanus77 3y ago

My grandfather lost his mother when he was 10, in 1919. Despite going deep into family history research for decades, and talking about so much of it with him before he passed at 97 almost 20 years ago, I only learned in 2021 that she died from the Spanish flu, offhandedly from a family member. What a strange black hole of recollection.

JambalayaJim 3y ago

The Spanish Flu is well known where I live (Canada) - because WW1 is a largest part of our history curriculum.

Gibbon1 3y ago

I was born after the polio epidemic and after the measles vaccine. But those things were still fresh in the minds of adults and teens. I remember getting vaccinated in the school cafeteria for the Hong Cong Flu. Kid in front of me who was a peckerhead had a complete meltdown and had to be held down in a chair by a couple of public health nurses.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]