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From what I'm reading here, the company misled "investors" by attaching the NFT to ownership in the company, which would be considered a security. "The order f
by evilantnie 3y ago
From what I'm reading here, the company misled "investors" by attaching the NFT to ownership in the company, which would be considered a security.
"The order finds that Impact Theory encouraged potential investors to view the purchase of a Founder’s Key as an investment into the business, stating that investors would profit from their purchases if Impact Theory was successful in its efforts."
When I purchase a baseball card, I do not have the expectation that there is any additional value attached to the baseball card beyond what the collector's market will pay.
- playday 3y agoWith baseball cards, You have an expectation that the MLB will continue to promote and develop Baseball as a top sport. You purchased an illegal security.
- burnerz27M 3y agoWouldn't the inverse be true - baseball cards become much more rare if Baseball itself ceases to exist as a going concern.
- taeric 3y agoRare things are not automatically valuable. I still have "dragon dice" and an original deck of cards from an old lord of the rings game. Basically worthless.
- boringg 3y agoYes, baseball cards would become incredibly valuable (at least the rare ones).
- unyttigfjelltol 3y agoThis only would be the case if people continued to care about baseball. In reality, fewer people would care less and less over time. For example, there is not great value in jousting paraphenelia.
- misnome 3y agoDo they promise you when buying them that they will gain in value if the sport does well?
- alasdair_ 3y agoThere are companies that use the cards of specific players as a way of investing in that player - they better the player does, the more their cards are worth.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- post-it 3y agoYou'd best file an amicus brief with your analysis.
- playday 3y agoUnfortunately the defendant settled, instead of fighting in court like they should have.
- yieldcrv 3y agoIts also worth nothing that the SEC is losing in court, losing the support of Congress and losing the support of the White House specifically as more people, including judges, notice this lack of distinction and the SEC’s unwillingness (and inability) to describe why there is a distinction there is either a way to issue crypto collections and collect money for them without being a security, or all other collections sold are securities with unregistered broker dealers operating illegally and fraudulently for the past 100 years
- potatototoo99 3y agoThat's not true, just wishful thinking on your part. Not all collectibles are unregistered offerings, obviously. Being a collectible also doesn't mean it can't be an unregistered offering also. This one clearly was.
- yieldcrv 3y agoSEC just lost again on another arbitrary and capricious stance in the crypto asset space! https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-08-29/us-court-paves-way-for-first-bitcoin-etf-in-grayscale-ruling?leadSource=reddit_wall https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-08-29/us-court-...
- nativeit 3y agoYou seem to be very keen on making this rather dubious point all over this thread. Certainly more motivated than I would consider “normal” for someone just wishing to weigh in on a topic they care about. Are you connected with this, or just having a particularly manic day?
- jxf 3y agoThat seems materially different from an expectation that you will make money on the card, or that the value of your card is determined by MLB's profitability and future earnings.
- gamblor956 3y agoWith baseball cards, You have an expectation that the MLB will continue to promote and develop Baseball as a top sport. You purchased an illegal security. No, you don't. For starters, baseball cards are not sold or marketed by the MLB, the teams, or the players, and buying a card does not entail any ownership in either the MLB, the companies making the card, the store where you bought the card, the players, or the teams. They're not sold by the companies that make them as business opportunities, and in fact most cards aren't worth anything. But every NFT tells you that you should buy their NFT because their efforts to promote the NFT as a business will lead to it increasing in value. And legally, that makes all the difference.
- Guvante 3y agoDid MLB promote baseball cards saying that their profitability would lead to increased value? Because in this case the company did exactly that. While they didn't call them securities they marketed them as securities.
- freejazz 3y agoNo, you don't.
- adrr 3y agoBaseball cards aren’t owned by the MLB. That would be a weird expectation like buying Oakland raiders hat and expecting the hat manufacture to stop the raiders from moving to Las Vegas because it would devalue the apparel. People buy baseball cards to collect them. I have a bunch from my childhood. They weren’t investments.
- junofan 3y agoYou must not be buying baseball cards in 2023. It’s gotten crazy.
- gamblor956 3y agoDoes buying a baseball card in 2023 now entail ownership in Fanatics or Panini? If not, then it's not even remotely the same thing as what goes on with non-fungible tokens like the one here.
- junofan 3y agoI don’t think these NFTs give ownership rights either. Reading the SEC order, it sounds like the reasonable expectation of a profit was the issue.
- gamblor956 3y agoThe NFTs did purport to give ownership rights in the business profits of the NFT, as represented by the value of the NFT increasing specifically because of the labor of others acting to increase the value of the NFT. And that is part of what makes them completely different from baseball cards. Even if the value of the cards are dependent on the labors of others, with the baseball cards, the laborers (i.e., players) are not performing that labor with the intent of increasing the value of the cards; the value of the increase in the cards, if any, is wholly coincidental.
- vikramkr 3y agoThat's still just the value of what the collectors market will pay. You down own a share in MLB with the card
- dcolkitt 3y ago> When I purchase a baseball card, I do not have the expectation that there is any additional value attached to the baseball card beyond what the collector's market will pay. What about music royalties rights? Those are almost always purchased with expectation of profit. Those are even explicitly marketed on the basis of how big an artist is going to be. Yet the SEC does not consider them securities https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1490161/000104746910005687/filename3.htm#:~:text=The%20Royalty%20Stream%20is%20not,is%20not%20an%20investment%20contract https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1490161/000104746910....