5 ms·

PyPy, Jython and CPython 3 on dotCloud

45 points by gabrielgrant 15y ago

gabrielgrant 15y ago
I know Quora hired Alex Gaynor to move them to PyPy last summer. Is anyone else actually using non-CPython 2.x in the real world?
- nknight 15y ago
  I've run one-off internal tasks with it, but for production, our CPU load on CPython is still low enough I can chant "it ain't broke" and do other things. I have tested our codebase on it to make sure we can deploy if we need to, though.
  - KenCochrane 15y ago
    Did you have any issues running it on PyPy? I know when I tried to run it, I had an issue with one of my requirements not being supported under PyPy.
    - nknight 15y ago
      We have an indirect, semi-optional, largely accidental dependency on eventlet/gevent which won't work in PyPy, but it's easy to just rip out if we go to production with PyPy. We should rip it out anyway, but there's no reason to spend the two hours on it right now.
      - KenCochrane 15y ago
        What would you deploy with? I have gotten it to work with Gunicorn, but if you can't use eventlet/gevent, that doesn't look like a great option. sync mode works aright, but not as good as async mode.
        nknight 15y ago
        Now that I know about Gunicorn (thanks!) I might deploy with that. I was just going to use multiprocessing + wsgiref. We don't get significant benefits from async with our current codebase and load characteristics -- like I said, the dependency was accidental.
      - Lexarius 15y ago
        I don't know about eventlet, but gevent appears to be working in pypy (for some trivial example code from the gevent page). Have you tried your application since greenlet got built-in to pypy stable?
KenCochrane 15y ago
What is the typical use case for Jython? Is it so that people can run Python at companies that only run Java? In that use case, I'm assuming people are creating a python app, and then compiling a War, and then deploying on Tomcat or Jetty?
- mynegation 15y ago
  This and if you have a large (sometimes legacy) JVM-based (i.e. not just Java, but Scala or Clojure as well) code base that you want to integrate with Python: Hadoop and Weka come to mind.
  - KenCochrane 15y ago
    I see. Can you access/call the java/scala/closure classes from inside of your python code? If so, that is pretty cool.
    - benmccann 15y ago
      Yes. http://wiki.python.org/jython/WhyJython http://wiki.python.org/jython/WhyJython
- waterside81 15y ago
  Yup, banks don't like Python, but Java is OK. So you write your Java in Jython, package it up & deploy. Here's another use case. At Repustate, we have an API to create PowerPoint presentations via an API call. We use Apache POI (Java) to create & manage PowerPoint slides, but our code base is all Python. So we have a Jython process running on Jetty, but instrument all of the Java bits with Python. It's pretty amazing to have all of the power of the JVM at your disposal but with the grace of Python.
  - KenCochrane 15y ago
    yeah that is pretty cool.
  - pasbesoin 15y ago
dbecker 15y ago
I hadn't heard of dotCloud before. From their web page, it looks like they might really simplify AWS deployment. Can any current users comment on how it compares to going through Amazon? The pricing page doesn't indicate how much storage or processing power you get for each price plan. I'm also wondering if they allocate enough resources for a site that does scientific computing on the back end.
- sudont 15y ago
  I've had a bunch of weirdness deploying a Flask app to the service. Defining requirements in a yml is nice for auto-install, but the scripts tend to break for me worse than "hand installing" via pip. The reason I'm moving the app to a micro EC2 instance is that dotCloud actively masks the debug interface, so I can't exactly tell why my app is breaking on their servers, but not my local machine. Plus the fact that dotCloud/Heroku is largely overkill for small, team-focused apps. I can't really justify dropping 99/mo for something only 50 people will be using. Otherwise, it was an incredibly smooth experience. EDIT: requirements.txt, not YML
  - gabrielgrant 15y ago
    Sorry to hear things that you're having trouble with dotCloud. A couple quick questions: First, which requirements are you putting in your dotcloud.yml? In general, pip-installable requirements should just go in a standard requirements.txt file, and dotcloud.yml should be used to describe the higher-level structure of your application (ie which service types you need). Also, I'm not sure what you mean about "masking the debug interface", but all your Flask/WSGI and nginx logs are available with the "dotcloud logs" command, and you can also log into your service instance directly to debug using "dotcloud ssh" (in which case logs can be found in the /var/log directory). You can also certainly use Flask in debug mode, by setting "application.debug = True" in your wsgi.py It is true that you may have trouble using the interactive, browser-based debugger with the default setup on dotCloud, then but this is a Flask limitation, not a dotCloud one. From http://flask.pocoo.org/docs/quickstart/#debug-mode http://flask.pocoo.org/docs/quickstart/#debug-mode: "the interactive debugger does not work in forking environments (which makes it nearly impossible to use on production servers)" Hope that helps, and if you have any other questions, drop us a line: support@dotcloud.com

45 points by gabrielgrant 15y ago

I know Quora hired Alex Gaynor to move them to PyPy last summer. Is anyone else actually using non-CPython 2.x in the real world?

nknight 15y ago
I've run one-off internal tasks with it, but for production, our CPU load on CPython is still low enough I can chant "it ain't broke" and do other things. I have tested our codebase on it to make sure we can deploy if we need to, though.
- KenCochrane 15y ago
  Did you have any issues running it on PyPy? I know when I tried to run it, I had an issue with one of my requirements not being supported under PyPy.
  - nknight 15y ago
    We have an indirect, semi-optional, largely accidental dependency on eventlet/gevent which won't work in PyPy, but it's easy to just rip out if we go to production with PyPy. We should rip it out anyway, but there's no reason to spend the two hours on it right now.
    - KenCochrane 15y ago
      What would you deploy with? I have gotten it to work with Gunicorn, but if you can't use eventlet/gevent, that doesn't look like a great option. sync mode works aright, but not as good as async mode.
      - nknight 15y ago
        Now that I know about Gunicorn (thanks!) I might deploy with that. I was just going to use multiprocessing + wsgiref. We don't get significant benefits from async with our current codebase and load characteristics -- like I said, the dependency was accidental.
    - Lexarius 15y ago
      I don't know about eventlet, but gevent appears to be working in pypy (for some trivial example code from the gevent page). Have you tried your application since greenlet got built-in to pypy stable?

KenCochrane 15y ago

What is the typical use case for Jython? Is it so that people can run Python at companies that only run Java? In that use case, I'm assuming people are creating a python app, and then compiling a War, and then deploying on Tomcat or Jetty?

mynegation 15y ago
This and if you have a large (sometimes legacy) JVM-based (i.e. not just Java, but Scala or Clojure as well) code base that you want to integrate with Python: Hadoop and Weka come to mind.
- KenCochrane 15y ago
  I see. Can you access/call the java/scala/closure classes from inside of your python code? If so, that is pretty cool.
  - benmccann 15y ago
    Yes. http://wiki.python.org/jython/WhyJython http://wiki.python.org/jython/WhyJython
waterside81 15y ago
Yup, banks don't like Python, but Java is OK. So you write your Java in Jython, package it up & deploy. Here's another use case. At Repustate, we have an API to create PowerPoint presentations via an API call. We use Apache POI (Java) to create & manage PowerPoint slides, but our code base is all Python. So we have a Jython process running on Jetty, but instrument all of the Java bits with Python. It's pretty amazing to have all of the power of the JVM at your disposal but with the grace of Python.
- KenCochrane 15y ago
  yeah that is pretty cool.
- pasbesoin 15y ago

dbecker 15y ago

I hadn't heard of dotCloud before. From their web page, it looks like they might really simplify AWS deployment. Can any current users comment on how it compares to going through Amazon? The pricing page doesn't indicate how much storage or processing power you get for each price plan. I'm also wondering if they allocate enough resources for a site that does scientific computing on the back end.

sudont 15y ago
I've had a bunch of weirdness deploying a Flask app to the service. Defining requirements in a yml is nice for auto-install, but the scripts tend to break for me worse than "hand installing" via pip. The reason I'm moving the app to a micro EC2 instance is that dotCloud actively masks the debug interface, so I can't exactly tell why my app is breaking on their servers, but not my local machine. Plus the fact that dotCloud/Heroku is largely overkill for small, team-focused apps. I can't really justify dropping 99/mo for something only 50 people will be using. Otherwise, it was an incredibly smooth experience. EDIT: requirements.txt, not YML
- gabrielgrant 15y ago
  Sorry to hear things that you're having trouble with dotCloud. A couple quick questions: First, which requirements are you putting in your dotcloud.yml? In general, pip-installable requirements should just go in a standard requirements.txt file, and dotcloud.yml should be used to describe the higher-level structure of your application (ie which service types you need). Also, I'm not sure what you mean about "masking the debug interface", but all your Flask/WSGI and nginx logs are available with the "dotcloud logs" command, and you can also log into your service instance directly to debug using "dotcloud ssh" (in which case logs can be found in the /var/log directory). You can also certainly use Flask in debug mode, by setting "application.debug = True" in your wsgi.py It is true that you may have trouble using the interactive, browser-based debugger with the default setup on dotCloud, then but this is a Flask limitation, not a dotCloud one. From http://flask.pocoo.org/docs/quickstart/#debug-mode http://flask.pocoo.org/docs/quickstart/#debug-mode: "the interactive debugger does not work in forking environments (which makes it nearly impossible to use on production servers)" Hope that helps, and if you have any other questions, drop us a line: support@dotcloud.com