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What's really tragic here is that the truth in Mr. Daisey's story will get dragged down by the weight of his lies. Chinese factory conditions are often horribl

What's really tragic here is that the truth in Mr. Daisey's story will get dragged down by the weight of his lies. Chinese factory conditions are often horrible, and there's often a blatant disregard for human life and dignity. Mr. Daisey did a pretty good job of conveying these ideas in a way that well-heeled westerners could understand at a gut level. However, his pursuit of storytelling over journalism is going to destroy all that. People are going to (rightfully) pitch the fact out along with the fiction, because there's no way to distinguish the two. It just makes me sad.

napierzaza 15y ago
I was more forgiving until I read in Ira's letter that he had invented the workers who were injured in the factory. That is a big fabrication and more than just pulling our emotional heart strings. Apparently child labour is much less rampant than he makes it sound. It seems like he more of a dilettante trying to grab attention and get noticed more than he is interested in labour standards.
tptacek 15y ago
What "truth" in his story? How do you know? The most dangerous thing you can do with a story like this is try to pick apart the things that seem true; your brain is wired to make the wrong things seem authentic.
- untog 15y ago
  When did he pick apart things in this story that seem true? This is hardly the first piece of evidence suggesting that factory conditions in China aren't great- there is a wealth of evidence. If you want something to watch, check out China Blue, for example. The point is that this will do damage to the existing, unchallenged evidence, because it'll have some kind of guilty by association attached to it.
  - tptacek 15y ago
    "What's really tragic here is that the truth in Mr. Daisey's story will get dragged down by the weight of his lies." I don't think his story taints any other particular investigation of Foxconn. But I think his whole story is now hazmat.
  - Steko 15y ago
    "This is hardly the first piece of evidence suggesting that factory conditions in China aren't great" It's funny how people want to whitewash how Daisey slandered Apple here. He wasn't speaking generically about Chinese factories -- the entire piece is built around a crucifixion of Apple. Apple, the bad Chinese sweatshop exploiter, that's what tens of millions of people who read the wave of publicity from this story took away from it. Each piece I've read has a few bits tacked on about "the rest of the industry" almost as an afterthought. Maybe Apple's the worst and deserves to be raked over the coals. But if the truth is that Apple holds it's suppliers to higher standards and should be held up as an example for other companies well you wouldn't know it.
- megaduck 15y ago
  I know because I've seen it. My wife and I used to live in China, and we did traveling in both the high and the low places. I can't speak to the particulars in Daisey's story (since I don't know which ones were made up), but the overall picture he painted sounded familiar. It's unquestionable that there are horrible working conditions in Chinese factories. That's the tragedy here. There's millions of awful wonderful horrible stories you can tell about Chinese factories, and Mike Daisey is obscuring them by making up his own.
  - tptacek 15y ago
    Your story would be a lot more valuable than Daisey's, which is worthless.
    - deleted 15y ago
      [deleted]
    - bilbo0s 15y ago
      His is worthless as well... Unless you can fact check it.
  - gwright 15y ago
    And how would you compare the work in the factories to being a Chinese farm worker, for example? Why are millions choosing factories over farms? I think it is more important that there is a trend towards improved work environments and opportunities than bemoaning the fact that any particular work environment isn't as good as some cushy 1st-world white-collar job.
    - abalone 15y ago
      Except when cushy 1st world jobs move to high-repression countries with few worker rights, it's trending the other way.
      - sans-serif 15y ago
        Yep, because the job selection used to be so great in high-repression countries with few worker rights.
- icebraining 15y ago
  From the article: "In our original broadcast, we fact checked all the things that Daisey said about Apple's operations in China," says Glass, "and those parts of his story were true, except for the underage workers, who are rare. We reported that discrepancy in the original show (...)" Apparently the lies are more about what he claimed to have personally experienced.
ChuckMcM 15y ago
What's really tragic here is that the truth in Mr. Daisey's story will get dragged down by the weight of his lies. [disclaimer: I have never taken journalism classes but I date someone majoring in journalism in college :-)] Disclaimer aside, I believe you comment is the whole 'moral' of the story. And were someone to write a pulitzer prize winning fictional story about a journalist who was so passionate about the topic they were reporting on they stepped into the cess pool of making up 'facts' and by doing so, lost their soul, and the thing that they were most passionate about gets dismissed and ignored. Its like a Greek tragedy except that instead of the hero dying its some noble cause that dies because of the acts of a selfish reporter. This is why people who want to be known as journalists have to never, ever, cross that line. Sadly it has a similar mechanism to cheating on your spouse, you do it once and don't get caught and its thrilling and exciting and nouveaux so you want to do it again, and again, and again. And then you do get caught at some point and all the good that was your marriage goes "Poof!" in an instant. (not a personal experience but related by folks daily it seems). As a literary tool it is very powerful, you can relate to the protagonist's passion, but cannot forgive their transgression.
jonhendry 15y ago
"Chinese factory conditions are often horrible, and there's often a blatant disregard for human life and dignity. " Yes, and Chinese businesses also put melamine in baby formula sold to Chinese families, that made hundreds or thousands of babies sick, and probably killed some. Frankly, if the Chinese factories are disregarding human life and dignity, it's probably not something pushed on them by Western companies. If anything, this kind of Chinese business ethics is something that will impede Western companies trying to clean up their supply chains.

napierzaza 15y ago

I was more forgiving until I read in Ira's letter that he had invented the workers who were injured in the factory. That is a big fabrication and more than just pulling our emotional heart strings. Apparently child labour is much less rampant than he makes it sound. It seems like he more of a dilettante trying to grab attention and get noticed more than he is interested in labour standards.

tptacek 15y ago

What "truth" in his story? How do you know? The most dangerous thing you can do with a story like this is try to pick apart the things that seem true; your brain is wired to make the wrong things seem authentic.

untog 15y ago
When did he pick apart things in this story that seem true? This is hardly the first piece of evidence suggesting that factory conditions in China aren't great- there is a wealth of evidence. If you want something to watch, check out China Blue, for example. The point is that this will do damage to the existing, unchallenged evidence, because it'll have some kind of guilty by association attached to it.
- tptacek 15y ago
  "What's really tragic here is that the truth in Mr. Daisey's story will get dragged down by the weight of his lies." I don't think his story taints any other particular investigation of Foxconn. But I think his whole story is now hazmat.
- Steko 15y ago
  "This is hardly the first piece of evidence suggesting that factory conditions in China aren't great" It's funny how people want to whitewash how Daisey slandered Apple here. He wasn't speaking generically about Chinese factories -- the entire piece is built around a crucifixion of Apple. Apple, the bad Chinese sweatshop exploiter, that's what tens of millions of people who read the wave of publicity from this story took away from it. Each piece I've read has a few bits tacked on about "the rest of the industry" almost as an afterthought. Maybe Apple's the worst and deserves to be raked over the coals. But if the truth is that Apple holds it's suppliers to higher standards and should be held up as an example for other companies well you wouldn't know it.
megaduck 15y ago
I know because I've seen it. My wife and I used to live in China, and we did traveling in both the high and the low places. I can't speak to the particulars in Daisey's story (since I don't know which ones were made up), but the overall picture he painted sounded familiar. It's unquestionable that there are horrible working conditions in Chinese factories. That's the tragedy here. There's millions of awful wonderful horrible stories you can tell about Chinese factories, and Mike Daisey is obscuring them by making up his own.
- tptacek 15y ago
  Your story would be a lot more valuable than Daisey's, which is worthless.
  - deleted 15y ago
    [deleted]
  - bilbo0s 15y ago
    His is worthless as well... Unless you can fact check it.
- gwright 15y ago
  And how would you compare the work in the factories to being a Chinese farm worker, for example? Why are millions choosing factories over farms? I think it is more important that there is a trend towards improved work environments and opportunities than bemoaning the fact that any particular work environment isn't as good as some cushy 1st-world white-collar job.
  - abalone 15y ago
    Except when cushy 1st world jobs move to high-repression countries with few worker rights, it's trending the other way.
    - sans-serif 15y ago
      Yep, because the job selection used to be so great in high-repression countries with few worker rights.
icebraining 15y ago
From the article: "In our original broadcast, we fact checked all the things that Daisey said about Apple's operations in China," says Glass, "and those parts of his story were true, except for the underage workers, who are rare. We reported that discrepancy in the original show (...)" Apparently the lies are more about what he claimed to have personally experienced.

ChuckMcM 15y ago

What's really tragic here is that the truth in Mr. Daisey's story will get dragged down by the weight of his lies. [disclaimer: I have never taken journalism classes but I date someone majoring in journalism in college :-)] Disclaimer aside, I believe you comment is the whole 'moral' of the story. And were someone to write a pulitzer prize winning fictional story about a journalist who was so passionate about the topic they were reporting on they stepped into the cess pool of making up 'facts' and by doing so, lost their soul, and the thing that they were most passionate about gets dismissed and ignored. Its like a Greek tragedy except that instead of the hero dying its some noble cause that dies because of the acts of a selfish reporter. This is why people who want to be known as journalists have to never, ever, cross that line. Sadly it has a similar mechanism to cheating on your spouse, you do it once and don't get caught and its thrilling and exciting and nouveaux so you want to do it again, and again, and again. And then you do get caught at some point and all the good that was your marriage goes "Poof!" in an instant. (not a personal experience but related by folks daily it seems). As a literary tool it is very powerful, you can relate to the protagonist's passion, but cannot forgive their transgression.

jonhendry 15y ago

"Chinese factory conditions are often horrible, and there's often a blatant disregard for human life and dignity. " Yes, and Chinese businesses also put melamine in baby formula sold to Chinese families, that made hundreds or thousands of babies sick, and probably killed some. Frankly, if the Chinese factories are disregarding human life and dignity, it's probably not something pushed on them by Western companies. If anything, this kind of Chinese business ethics is something that will impede Western companies trying to clean up their supply chains.