6 ms·

Common sense proposed the lab leak. Was absurd and scary how easily it was dismissed in pretty much the entire Western media, not only the US. Even this forum g

by toshk 3y ago

Common sense proposed the lab leak. Was absurd and scary how easily it was dismissed in pretty much the entire Western media, not only the US. Even this forum got subjected to it.

HKH2 3y ago
Well it's potentially racist to some, so common sense has to go out the window.
- ekianjo 3y ago
  The fact that labs exist in other countries with people of different ethnicities is not racist
  - Nasrudith 3y ago
    But the fact it was basically a recycling of several racist "those filthy foreigners are responsible for disease" tropes along with "scheming orientals" tropes.
    - jkhdigital 3y ago
      No the argument is nonsensical on its face. A lab leak supposedly recycles those tropes but emergence from an unsanitary wet market does not?
    - edgyquant 3y ago
      Seems more like you projecting some racist stuff no one else was thinking of.
    - didntcheck 3y ago
      As opposed to the "approved" knowledge that it came from foreigners with poor hygiene eating strange animals?
- Arainach 3y ago
  It's not "potentially" racist. It was being spouted by racists and directly leading to violence against asians in America and elsewhere. When this behavior is seen, and with the standard lack of any nuance in both reporting and social media, making such claims publicly if you're less than 95% certain is irresponsible.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - lelanthran 3y ago
    What makes you certain that there was less than a 1 in 20 chance that the lab leak theory was wrong at the time? After all, percentage fbtou are going to wait for every theory to be 19/20 chance of being correct before you announce it as a theory, no theory would have been announced at all for COVID
    - Arainach 3y ago
      You can't prove a negative. Again, you are ignoring my point - most science isn't trying to make claims already being used to incite violence. There is a higher standard before publicly discussing such things.
  - Slava_Propanei 3y ago
    [dead]
  - local_issues 3y ago
    The lab leak theory was not being touted by the Black people who beat up Asians in droves the last 3 years. The idea that it was Trumpists was a conspiracy theory not borne out by stats
jkhdigital 3y ago
It was not just “common sense”. I was reading in-depth articles about the GoF line of research and all the characters involved (Ralph Baric, Shi Zhengli, etc) back in March/April 2020. Basically the entire body of circumstantial evidence pointing to the lab leak hypothesis was known and reported within months of the start of the pandemic. Every in-depth article written since then has been mostly a rehashing of what various bloggers and alternative news sites had already published.
wait_what 3y ago
There is a huge reason to downplay it, especially in the USA, until things could cool around it or things could be worked out 100% factually and it is a science related - basic Psychology. That reason? Hate Crimes - https://www.npr.org/2021/08/12/1027236499/anti-asian-hate-crimes-assaults-pandemic-incidents-aapi https://www.npr.org/2021/08/12/1027236499/anti-asian-hate-cr... Even in my small town of 7000, an Indian lady was assaulted to "get back at those Chinese for giving us COVID (which doesn't exist and is just made up by the lame stream media)".
- joenot443 3y ago
  I don't think we should reject reality just because we're concerned others can't handle that reality without reacting violently. The notion that we should downplay certain ideas because of crimes committed by people that misunderstand those ideas is not something I can get behind, sorry. Do you post on reddit a lot? The phrasing of your argument and the intermittent spacing has that reddity vibe to me.
  - Shugarl 3y ago
    GP didn't suggest to reject reality out of concern for others. He said we should make sure to be 100% certain of what the facts are before asserting what reality is to the public, especially when it comes to sensitive subjects. The alternative is to say that reality is A, have a lot of people face (just or unjust) repercussions, then say "Oopsie! Turns out we were dead wrong". The damage is already done by that point.
- edgyquant 3y ago
  No this isn’t a good reason to shutdown actual scientific discussion and this whole thing felt like a red herring specifically played up to shut down dissent. Anti-Asian hate crimes are a real thing, but both black and white Americans endure them at a higher rate[1]. Further, these types of attacks went up across the board during the pandemic however Asian based hate crimes represented only ~8% of these attacks with most other ethnic groups having way more attacks targeted at them[2]. Seems to me like an example of cherry picked statistics being used for political gain. Asian hate crimes being something that became way more common during the pandemic is simply not grounded in reality. https://www.statista.com/statistics/737681/number-of-racial-hate-crimes-in-the-us-by-race/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/737681/number-of-racial-... https://www.justice.gov/crs/highlights/2021-hate-crime-statistics https://www.justice.gov/crs/highlights/2021-hate-crime-stati...

by toshk 3y ago

Common sense proposed the lab leak. Was absurd and scary how easily it was dismissed in pretty much the entire Western media, not only the US. Even this forum got subjected to it.

HKH2 3y ago

Well it's potentially racist to some, so common sense has to go out the window.

ekianjo 3y ago
The fact that labs exist in other countries with people of different ethnicities is not racist
- Nasrudith 3y ago
  But the fact it was basically a recycling of several racist "those filthy foreigners are responsible for disease" tropes along with "scheming orientals" tropes.
  - jkhdigital 3y ago
    No the argument is nonsensical on its face. A lab leak supposedly recycles those tropes but emergence from an unsanitary wet market does not?
  - edgyquant 3y ago
    Seems more like you projecting some racist stuff no one else was thinking of.
  - didntcheck 3y ago
    As opposed to the "approved" knowledge that it came from foreigners with poor hygiene eating strange animals?
Arainach 3y ago
It's not "potentially" racist. It was being spouted by racists and directly leading to violence against asians in America and elsewhere. When this behavior is seen, and with the standard lack of any nuance in both reporting and social media, making such claims publicly if you're less than 95% certain is irresponsible.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- lelanthran 3y ago
  What makes you certain that there was less than a 1 in 20 chance that the lab leak theory was wrong at the time? After all, percentage fbtou are going to wait for every theory to be 19/20 chance of being correct before you announce it as a theory, no theory would have been announced at all for COVID
  - Arainach 3y ago
    You can't prove a negative. Again, you are ignoring my point - most science isn't trying to make claims already being used to incite violence. There is a higher standard before publicly discussing such things.
- Slava_Propanei 3y ago
  [dead]
- local_issues 3y ago
  The lab leak theory was not being touted by the Black people who beat up Asians in droves the last 3 years. The idea that it was Trumpists was a conspiracy theory not borne out by stats

jkhdigital 3y ago

It was not just “common sense”. I was reading in-depth articles about the GoF line of research and all the characters involved (Ralph Baric, Shi Zhengli, etc) back in March/April 2020. Basically the entire body of circumstantial evidence pointing to the lab leak hypothesis was known and reported within months of the start of the pandemic. Every in-depth article written since then has been mostly a rehashing of what various bloggers and alternative news sites had already published.

wait_what 3y ago

There is a huge reason to downplay it, especially in the USA, until things could cool around it or things could be worked out 100% factually and it is a science related - basic Psychology. That reason? Hate Crimes - https://www.npr.org/2021/08/12/1027236499/anti-asian-hate-crimes-assaults-pandemic-incidents-aapi https://www.npr.org/2021/08/12/1027236499/anti-asian-hate-cr... Even in my small town of 7000, an Indian lady was assaulted to "get back at those Chinese for giving us COVID (which doesn't exist and is just made up by the lame stream media)".

joenot443 3y ago
I don't think we should reject reality just because we're concerned others can't handle that reality without reacting violently. The notion that we should downplay certain ideas because of crimes committed by people that misunderstand those ideas is not something I can get behind, sorry. Do you post on reddit a lot? The phrasing of your argument and the intermittent spacing has that reddity vibe to me.
- Shugarl 3y ago
  GP didn't suggest to reject reality out of concern for others. He said we should make sure to be 100% certain of what the facts are before asserting what reality is to the public, especially when it comes to sensitive subjects. The alternative is to say that reality is A, have a lot of people face (just or unjust) repercussions, then say "Oopsie! Turns out we were dead wrong". The damage is already done by that point.
edgyquant 3y ago
No this isn’t a good reason to shutdown actual scientific discussion and this whole thing felt like a red herring specifically played up to shut down dissent. Anti-Asian hate crimes are a real thing, but both black and white Americans endure them at a higher rate[1]. Further, these types of attacks went up across the board during the pandemic however Asian based hate crimes represented only ~8% of these attacks with most other ethnic groups having way more attacks targeted at them[2]. Seems to me like an example of cherry picked statistics being used for political gain. Asian hate crimes being something that became way more common during the pandemic is simply not grounded in reality. https://www.statista.com/statistics/737681/number-of-racial-hate-crimes-in-the-us-by-race/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/737681/number-of-racial-... https://www.justice.gov/crs/highlights/2021-hate-crime-statistics https://www.justice.gov/crs/highlights/2021-hate-crime-stati...