6 ms·

I am perplexed too. Is the word "science" being redefined in the US? Why does it appear that most people discussing here are so... helpless? Needing someone to

by dobin 3y ago

I am perplexed too. Is the word "science" being redefined in the US? Why does it appear that most people discussing here are so... helpless? Needing someone to tell them the truth? Did no one in here ever do any science at all?

doublespanner 3y ago
Often yes, it's now not defined as simply a description of a process it's "The Science"... An editorilised summary of work that supports some policy or initiative. It's often not really possible to contradict or contribute to The Science as an outsider, as access to the equipment, samples, and raw data is not available.
nathan_compton 3y ago
The vast majority of human beings don't even go to grad school, believe it or not.
- christophilus 3y ago
  I did science in middle school, and still do it today as an adult. What’s grad school have to do with anything?
  - nathan_compton 3y ago
    I've gone to grad school and only after a lot of years of self study afterward have I really begun to understand what science is, how it actually functions, what the fundamental ontological and epistemological commitments my field makes, etc etc etc. In my opinion graduate school allows the student to _just barely_ touch something like actual knowledge of some specific thing. I think you're just vastly over estimating the actual substance of middle school science education.
    - christophilus 3y ago
      The scientific method can be understood by a middle schooler. A rigorous and independent way of thinking can be taught to middle schoolers, too. Understanding the primary causes of bias, both psychological and methodological is also something a middle schooler could be taught, (though I was never really taught it even in university). Deep understanding of a particular field is something altogether different, and is not what I mean when I talk about capital-S “Science”. For that, you need either grad school or a lot of study.
    - matthewdgreen 3y ago
      Graduate school taught me to respect how little detailed knowledge I have of a specific topic compared to experts who have deeply read the literature. It did not teach me the scientific method.
      - nathan_compton 3y ago
        Science is much, much more than the scientific method. I'm glad people get exposed to the idea in grade school or whatever but just being able to list the steps in the scientific method doesn't make you scientifically literate or able to appreciate how knowledge and knowledge generation actually works.
  - csours 3y ago
    Did someone close to you growing up do science? Many people do not have someone like that. Many people were raised in an area without well-funded education. My family was very scientifically minded, and it has also taken me many years to realize what 'science' is. --- Your comment sounds to me like "I've won the lottery and I don't understand why everyone else hasn't". Yes it is possible to understand a lot of things about science at an early age; however I do not think very many people have a deep enough understanding of sociology to understand all the implications of public discussion of science.

by dobin 3y ago

doublespanner 3y ago

Often yes, it's now not defined as simply a description of a process it's "The Science"... An editorilised summary of work that supports some policy or initiative. It's often not really possible to contradict or contribute to The Science as an outsider, as access to the equipment, samples, and raw data is not available.

nathan_compton 3y ago

The vast majority of human beings don't even go to grad school, believe it or not.

christophilus 3y ago
I did science in middle school, and still do it today as an adult. What’s grad school have to do with anything?
- nathan_compton 3y ago
  I've gone to grad school and only after a lot of years of self study afterward have I really begun to understand what science is, how it actually functions, what the fundamental ontological and epistemological commitments my field makes, etc etc etc. In my opinion graduate school allows the student to _just barely_ touch something like actual knowledge of some specific thing. I think you're just vastly over estimating the actual substance of middle school science education.
  - christophilus 3y ago
    The scientific method can be understood by a middle schooler. A rigorous and independent way of thinking can be taught to middle schoolers, too. Understanding the primary causes of bias, both psychological and methodological is also something a middle schooler could be taught, (though I was never really taught it even in university). Deep understanding of a particular field is something altogether different, and is not what I mean when I talk about capital-S “Science”. For that, you need either grad school or a lot of study.
  - matthewdgreen 3y ago
    Graduate school taught me to respect how little detailed knowledge I have of a specific topic compared to experts who have deeply read the literature. It did not teach me the scientific method.
    - nathan_compton 3y ago
      Science is much, much more than the scientific method. I'm glad people get exposed to the idea in grade school or whatever but just being able to list the steps in the scientific method doesn't make you scientifically literate or able to appreciate how knowledge and knowledge generation actually works.
- csours 3y ago
  Did someone close to you growing up do science? Many people do not have someone like that. Many people were raised in an area without well-funded education. My family was very scientifically minded, and it has also taken me many years to realize what 'science' is. --- Your comment sounds to me like "I've won the lottery and I don't understand why everyone else hasn't". Yes it is possible to understand a lot of things about science at an early age; however I do not think very many people have a deep enough understanding of sociology to understand all the implications of public discussion of science.