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> It swamps me with tweets by Neon-Nazis and Russian propaganda when I simply just look for #ukraine from a nearly blank, new user account. Strong accusation.

> It swamps me with tweets by Neon-Nazis and Russian propaganda when I simply just look for #ukraine from a nearly blank, new user account. Strong accusation. It’s wrong. Very easy to test. I made a new account, put Careers, Business, and Technology as interests, followed one person (Elon Musk) as bare minimum. Searching #Ukraine shows pro-Ukraine posts and mostly atrocities by Russia. There’s virtually no difference in search with my own personal account. What are you on about?

jonathanstrange 3y ago
Twitter is a cesspool of hate, be aware that I only gave #ukraine as an example. And No, AFAIK I'm not wrong. Yes, it mostly shows pro-Ukrainian accounts and never claimed the majority of tweets are problematic. But it also shows a lot of pro-Russian propaganda of the worst sort. Many of these tweets are illegal in e.g. Germany. The tweets I've seen range from torture of POWs, over the glorification of genocide to conspiracy theories. However, you're right in that I should have prepared better ways of proving this. I'll document the respective posters and accounts in the future and will report them more systematically. I encourage others to do the same, and instead of reporting to Twitter directly report to the links in [1]. > What are you on about? Excuse me? [1] https://www.coe.int/en/web/no-hate-campaign/reporting-to-national-bodies https://www.coe.int/en/web/no-hate-campaign/reporting-to-nat...
- avindroth 3y ago
  Alright, if you will, help me understand your position. Maybe it’s good to agree on some baselines. 1) Do you think freedom of speech is important? 2) How do you draw the line between free speech and hate speech? 3) Who should draw the line? For instance, you mention conspiracy theories; do you think we should ban users who tweet about conspiracy theories? Second and third questions optional if you don’t think freedom of speech is important.
  - jonathanstrange 3y ago
    1.) Yes. 2.) Although I'm a philosopher working in related areas and know plenty of people working on hate speech, I confine myself strictly to problems in metaethics and value-based decision making. So I don't draw the line. Generally, this is done by lawmakers and judges applying the law. For example, using Nazi symbols or publicly supporting wars of aggression is illegal in Germany. 3.) Judges and lawmakers. > For instance, you mention conspiracy theories; do you think we should ban users who tweet about conspiracy theories? Yes, for certain types of politically instrumentalized conspiracies that get intentionally amplified. The same for misinformation and fake news accounts, especially those run by state agencies like the FSB. But that's about moderation, not about illegal posts. Of course, any working social media need strong moderation. The lack of moderation is one of the reason why Twitter is such a horrible place - but there are other causes, it basically encourages toxic behavior and passive aggression due to its rules and their inconsequent and inconsistent enforcement. However, moderation and blocking speech for legal reasons are two very different issues. I was suggesting that there is also a lot of illegal content on Twitter (according to local laws, not necessarily US law). When looking for #ukraine most notably open support of genocide, racist slurs, support for war crimes and the breaking of the Geneva Conventions such as displaying movies of POWs under duress, advocating torture, and supporting the bombing of civilians. There is also a high overlap with hate speech against the LGBT communities, mostly because many of the violently pro-Russian posters are also MAGA people from the US. As for your doubts about what I see on Twitter, I took the liberty to quickly compile a short list of questionable and toxic accounts that pop up just by "exploring" for #ukraine Top and Latest (today, right now). To put this into context, you're right that the majority are pro-Ukraine. However, there is a danger of committing a fallacy of misleading two-sidedness in this case. Ukraine is the victim, Russia the aggressor. See my comment above about the German law. Supporting one or the other is not on a par, neither morally nor according to the law. @Kanthan2030 @21WIRE @DravenNoctis @georgegalloway @WithyGrove @LanaAsanin @Jewels_MsJay @Qujuz @2cnlkh68 @THEENDGAMEWAR1 @MettsnBock @BowesChay @mazzenilsson @DasRgen4 @Judgenap @RealScottRitter @amitashi1985 @EmpireCide @Ri1_AAA @AdamStorm98 I'm not claiming that all of them are posting illegal content, but e.g. the last one wrote a post why a police officer should get the firing squad for being "woke" and a "lesbo". It's just the typical content you get on Twitter.
    - 3y ago

jonathanstrange 3y ago

Twitter is a cesspool of hate, be aware that I only gave #ukraine as an example. And No, AFAIK I'm not wrong. Yes, it mostly shows pro-Ukrainian accounts and never claimed the majority of tweets are problematic. But it also shows a lot of pro-Russian propaganda of the worst sort. Many of these tweets are illegal in e.g. Germany. The tweets I've seen range from torture of POWs, over the glorification of genocide to conspiracy theories. However, you're right in that I should have prepared better ways of proving this. I'll document the respective posters and accounts in the future and will report them more systematically. I encourage others to do the same, and instead of reporting to Twitter directly report to the links in [1]. > What are you on about? Excuse me? [1] https://www.coe.int/en/web/no-hate-campaign/reporting-to-national-bodies https://www.coe.int/en/web/no-hate-campaign/reporting-to-nat...

avindroth 3y ago
Alright, if you will, help me understand your position. Maybe it’s good to agree on some baselines. 1) Do you think freedom of speech is important? 2) How do you draw the line between free speech and hate speech? 3) Who should draw the line? For instance, you mention conspiracy theories; do you think we should ban users who tweet about conspiracy theories? Second and third questions optional if you don’t think freedom of speech is important.
- jonathanstrange 3y ago
  1.) Yes. 2.) Although I'm a philosopher working in related areas and know plenty of people working on hate speech, I confine myself strictly to problems in metaethics and value-based decision making. So I don't draw the line. Generally, this is done by lawmakers and judges applying the law. For example, using Nazi symbols or publicly supporting wars of aggression is illegal in Germany. 3.) Judges and lawmakers. > For instance, you mention conspiracy theories; do you think we should ban users who tweet about conspiracy theories? Yes, for certain types of politically instrumentalized conspiracies that get intentionally amplified. The same for misinformation and fake news accounts, especially those run by state agencies like the FSB. But that's about moderation, not about illegal posts. Of course, any working social media need strong moderation. The lack of moderation is one of the reason why Twitter is such a horrible place - but there are other causes, it basically encourages toxic behavior and passive aggression due to its rules and their inconsequent and inconsistent enforcement. However, moderation and blocking speech for legal reasons are two very different issues. I was suggesting that there is also a lot of illegal content on Twitter (according to local laws, not necessarily US law). When looking for #ukraine most notably open support of genocide, racist slurs, support for war crimes and the breaking of the Geneva Conventions such as displaying movies of POWs under duress, advocating torture, and supporting the bombing of civilians. There is also a high overlap with hate speech against the LGBT communities, mostly because many of the violently pro-Russian posters are also MAGA people from the US. As for your doubts about what I see on Twitter, I took the liberty to quickly compile a short list of questionable and toxic accounts that pop up just by "exploring" for #ukraine Top and Latest (today, right now). To put this into context, you're right that the majority are pro-Ukraine. However, there is a danger of committing a fallacy of misleading two-sidedness in this case. Ukraine is the victim, Russia the aggressor. See my comment above about the German law. Supporting one or the other is not on a par, neither morally nor according to the law. @Kanthan2030 @21WIRE @DravenNoctis @georgegalloway @WithyGrove @LanaAsanin @Jewels_MsJay @Qujuz @2cnlkh68 @THEENDGAMEWAR1 @MettsnBock @BowesChay @mazzenilsson @DasRgen4 @Judgenap @RealScottRitter @amitashi1985 @EmpireCide @Ri1_AAA @AdamStorm98 I'm not claiming that all of them are posting illegal content, but e.g. the last one wrote a post why a police officer should get the firing squad for being "woke" and a "lesbo". It's just the typical content you get on Twitter.
  - 3y ago