5 ms·

Love the idea and the design - but if the hammer isn't mechanically coupled to the keys, it's hard to imagine it will have proper control and feedback from the

Love the idea and the design - but if the hammer isn't mechanically coupled to the keys, it's hard to imagine it will have proper control and feedback from the touch. I'm sure the designer is fully aware of this, so it's probably intended for it's niche

pdonis 3y ago
> if the hammer isn't mechanically coupled to the keys, it's hard to imagine it will have proper control and feedback from the touch Electronic keyboards have weighted keys and similar tactile feedback to regular acoustic pianos, so this is a solved problem.
- o11c 3y ago
  Electronic keyboards are advertised as if they have tactile feedback. In reality, it's a very hard problem and we shouldn't be surprised that consumer-grade ones don't even get close. (of course, this advertisement isn't really for consumer grade ...)
- CoolestBeans 3y ago
  Man there are digital pianos that have an entire keyboard and hammer assembly right out of a acoustic piano but the hammers strike a force sensor instead of strings. Definitely more on the ridiculous side of things but the fact there's a market for it means people do really care for the authentic tactile feeling of a piano especially if that's what they've trained on for decades.
  - ezst 3y ago
    Not having an opinion on the matter, I just wanted to point out that there is also a market out there for people pretending to hear the difference between optical audio cables and gold-plated optical audio cables… I wouldn't be surprised if companies were willing to over-engineer something, anything just to sell at a higher price :)
- lucas_codes 3y ago
  This is such an HN comment ;) Sibling comments are correct that weighted keys, graded hammer action, etc are all much better than a plastic level but still don't have a proper sense of touch that is linked directly to the sound. It's not even a matter of training with a particular touch and being used to it - the link between the body and the sound is incredibly important and mechanical means of making the link are still far superior.
  - jojobas 3y ago
    At this point I would doubt that pro pianists could tell the difference in a blind test environment. Regardless of what pianists will tell you, there is just one variable (hammer velocity) to actual sound production (by that point the hammer is decoupled from the key and whatever you do to the key after the first 5-7 mm of travel is of no consequence). So the only "real" problem to solve is correctly measuring the desired speed and launching the hammer quickly enough.
    - lucas_codes 3y ago
      I'm a professional musician but not on piano, and even I can tell the difference. While it may be true that velocity is the only variable, it's not a physics problem. As a player you can't choose the instantaneous velocity for the note, and the note is played at the same time or immediately before/after other notes, which all adds more variables to the touch and the movement of the musician. Therefore the whole action matters, including how the key travels, the decoupling point, the resistance of the multiple parts of the action, the rebound... etc It's interesting you're happy to disregard pianists opinions on the matter. Perhaps you think experts are too mired in tradition to see the truth? That may be true sometimes, but you also don't have the same grasp of what's involved as they do.
      - jojobas 3y ago
        You forgot the two words: blind test. I know for a fact that experts can't tell Stradivari from modern high quality violins, can't tell if two glasses of wine are from across the world of each other or from the same bottle, rumours are they can't tell whether they're listening to a recording or live string quartet. https://www.science.org/content/article/million-dollar-strads-fall-modern-violins-blind-sound-check https://www.science.org/content/article/million-dollar-strad... https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2013/jun/23/wine-tasting-junk-science-analysis https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2013/jun/23/wine-ta... There is quite some variation between real piano actions of grand vs upright, 18th century and modern, German vs French vs English action etc. There's also no magic about either of them and no fundamental reason why an electronically coupled action couldn't exactly mimic them.
rjvs 3y ago
If the hammer isn't mechanically coupled to the keys he could also have addressed functionality such as the width of the keys instead of just aesthetics. The standard size piano keyboard is too wide for most female hands and many men to play advanced pieces comfortably (or at all).

pdonis 3y ago

> if the hammer isn't mechanically coupled to the keys, it's hard to imagine it will have proper control and feedback from the touch Electronic keyboards have weighted keys and similar tactile feedback to regular acoustic pianos, so this is a solved problem.

o11c 3y ago
Electronic keyboards are advertised as if they have tactile feedback. In reality, it's a very hard problem and we shouldn't be surprised that consumer-grade ones don't even get close. (of course, this advertisement isn't really for consumer grade ...)
CoolestBeans 3y ago
Man there are digital pianos that have an entire keyboard and hammer assembly right out of a acoustic piano but the hammers strike a force sensor instead of strings. Definitely more on the ridiculous side of things but the fact there's a market for it means people do really care for the authentic tactile feeling of a piano especially if that's what they've trained on for decades.
- ezst 3y ago
  Not having an opinion on the matter, I just wanted to point out that there is also a market out there for people pretending to hear the difference between optical audio cables and gold-plated optical audio cables… I wouldn't be surprised if companies were willing to over-engineer something, anything just to sell at a higher price :)
lucas_codes 3y ago
This is such an HN comment ;) Sibling comments are correct that weighted keys, graded hammer action, etc are all much better than a plastic level but still don't have a proper sense of touch that is linked directly to the sound. It's not even a matter of training with a particular touch and being used to it - the link between the body and the sound is incredibly important and mechanical means of making the link are still far superior.
- jojobas 3y ago
  At this point I would doubt that pro pianists could tell the difference in a blind test environment. Regardless of what pianists will tell you, there is just one variable (hammer velocity) to actual sound production (by that point the hammer is decoupled from the key and whatever you do to the key after the first 5-7 mm of travel is of no consequence). So the only "real" problem to solve is correctly measuring the desired speed and launching the hammer quickly enough.
  - lucas_codes 3y ago
    I'm a professional musician but not on piano, and even I can tell the difference. While it may be true that velocity is the only variable, it's not a physics problem. As a player you can't choose the instantaneous velocity for the note, and the note is played at the same time or immediately before/after other notes, which all adds more variables to the touch and the movement of the musician. Therefore the whole action matters, including how the key travels, the decoupling point, the resistance of the multiple parts of the action, the rebound... etc It's interesting you're happy to disregard pianists opinions on the matter. Perhaps you think experts are too mired in tradition to see the truth? That may be true sometimes, but you also don't have the same grasp of what's involved as they do.
    - jojobas 3y ago
      You forgot the two words: blind test. I know for a fact that experts can't tell Stradivari from modern high quality violins, can't tell if two glasses of wine are from across the world of each other or from the same bottle, rumours are they can't tell whether they're listening to a recording or live string quartet. https://www.science.org/content/article/million-dollar-strads-fall-modern-violins-blind-sound-check https://www.science.org/content/article/million-dollar-strad... https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2013/jun/23/wine-tasting-junk-science-analysis https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2013/jun/23/wine-ta... There is quite some variation between real piano actions of grand vs upright, 18th century and modern, German vs French vs English action etc. There's also no magic about either of them and no fundamental reason why an electronically coupled action couldn't exactly mimic them.

rjvs 3y ago

If the hammer isn't mechanically coupled to the keys he could also have addressed functionality such as the width of the keys instead of just aesthetics. The standard size piano keyboard is too wide for most female hands and many men to play advanced pieces comfortably (or at all).