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This is a pretty extreme article, but I think the argument is not that it doesn't exist but rather that it is blown out of proportion. The metric that is used t

This is a pretty extreme article, but I think the argument is not that it doesn't exist but rather that it is blown out of proportion. The metric that is used to calculate obesity (specifically at the time they reference) was BMI which is a fairly flawed metric and significantly the obesity line was lowered. Idk how it is calculated now.

jagraff 3y ago
BMI is a pretty decent measure of fat percentage for the vast majority of people, it really only fails for people who have far more muscle mass than most people (body builders). It is highly correlated with health outcomes - people with a BMI over 30 (obese) have significantly higher risk of death from heart disease, stroke, diabetes, and cancer - this is true at a BMI of 30 and it only gets worse from there. 40% of americans are obese. It's not overblown - if anything, I think most people don't understand just how big of a health crisis it is.
- zolland 3y ago
  > BMI is a pretty decent measure of fat percentage for the vast majority of people It isn't really measuring anything. It is just a very general index to gauge how far you diverge from a predetermined height to weight ratio. Maybe that's useful to someone but I wouldn't base any of my decisions on it today.
  - Kirby64 3y ago
    On the margins it may not be useful, but for the "average" person, it is definitely useful. I'd suggest there is no one with a BMI of 30 (besides people with a ton of muscle) that is at a healthy weight. Its a gut check, which is what is helpful.
    - vintermann 3y ago
      You know what they say, most of the volume of a high-dimensional orange is in the skin. The average person is very rare. BMI is best for populations since it's so easy to calculate from easily and frequently collected data. For an individual, you can fairly easily get more accurate measures to predict whatever it is you want to predict.
  - robertlagrant 3y ago
    If you're not a bodybuilder and not pregnant, it's one of the simplest useful calculations we have. You'd be amazed at how many medical decision-making tools[0] are very simple and are based on outcomes, not rigorous mathematical theory. [0] E.g. NEWS https://www.nice.org.uk/advice/mib205/chapter/The-technology https://www.nice.org.uk/advice/mib205/chapter/The-technology
lockhouse 3y ago
My eyes tell me that the obesity epidemic is real. Go to any public gathering of a couple dozen people or more and count the obese people you see. Heck, pick up a middle school yearbook, we’re starting obesity young these days. We were hoping our future was Star Trek, but it’s looking more like Wall-E.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
Buttons840 3y ago
Claiming that BMI is flawed is a lazy half-argument. Finish the argument, what should be used instead of BMI? Look at the correlation plots and draw your own BMI line [0]. I think the BMI lines look pretty good for men, but for women who fall into the common BMI range of 25 to 30, the BMI formula tends to underestimate the amount of body fat. It would be nice if everyone could get a DEXA scan regularly, but the data shows that 50% of people would find that they have even more body fat than the BMI charts predict. Again, it's worse for women, most women near the overweight threshold would find that their body fat is higher than expected. [0]: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2877506/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2877506/
- nonameiguess 3y ago
  This needs to become more widely known. BMI underestimates obesity, not the other way around. Studies that use better measures of body fat percentage consistently find even people who are "normal" weight are fatter than they think. It's why doctors are supposed to now use waist to height ratio as a secondary predictor.
- zolland 3y ago
  My issue with it is two fold. I think due to its generalized nature there are exceptions where it doesn't even apply (like people who are weight training, pregnant women etc). I also think it is becoming apparent that weight alone is not as useful of a metric as was once believed. It doesn't do a great job of identifying whether or not someone is healthy. So maybe it is the best that institutions can do to gauge the health of a population with the data given, but I think it could be improved drastically with extra metrics (I've heard of measurements around the body being used). There is a subset of people who are being misidentified as unhealthy or overweight. Idk how large it is but it seems significant.
  - angrais 3y ago
    Obviously there are edge cases when applying statistical tools at a population level. That's not the purpose of BMI though. If you're pregnant or weight training then OBVIOUSLY your BMI score is not comparable to others. Most people are neither pregnant nor weight training. I'd even bet that most people haven't performed a weighted squat. >> I also think it is becoming apparent that weight alone is not as useful of a metric as was once believed. Being fat is bad for your health. That is a fact. No amount of body positivity advertisements will change that fact. It is healthier to be thinner than obese. Look at the graph above to see BMIs impact on other health outcomes. Also, if you think the obesity crisis is fake/blown up then simply go outside in most American cities and you'll see that many people are obese. > There is a subset of people who are being misidentified as unhealthy or overweight. Idk how large it is but it seems significant. Again, this is not relevant as the subset of people is so small compared with the whole population. The "data given" is included in BMI. Your relative weight is an indicator of multiple other health outcomes.
Cthulhu_ 3y ago
It's a starting point for sure, a more thorough research would look at body weight ratios. That said, while BMI is a skewed metric for muscular people, statistically it's still more representative of obesity than 'dry' weight.

jagraff 3y ago

BMI is a pretty decent measure of fat percentage for the vast majority of people, it really only fails for people who have far more muscle mass than most people (body builders). It is highly correlated with health outcomes - people with a BMI over 30 (obese) have significantly higher risk of death from heart disease, stroke, diabetes, and cancer - this is true at a BMI of 30 and it only gets worse from there. 40% of americans are obese. It's not overblown - if anything, I think most people don't understand just how big of a health crisis it is.

zolland 3y ago
> BMI is a pretty decent measure of fat percentage for the vast majority of people It isn't really measuring anything. It is just a very general index to gauge how far you diverge from a predetermined height to weight ratio. Maybe that's useful to someone but I wouldn't base any of my decisions on it today.
- Kirby64 3y ago
  On the margins it may not be useful, but for the "average" person, it is definitely useful. I'd suggest there is no one with a BMI of 30 (besides people with a ton of muscle) that is at a healthy weight. Its a gut check, which is what is helpful.
  - vintermann 3y ago
    You know what they say, most of the volume of a high-dimensional orange is in the skin. The average person is very rare. BMI is best for populations since it's so easy to calculate from easily and frequently collected data. For an individual, you can fairly easily get more accurate measures to predict whatever it is you want to predict.
- robertlagrant 3y ago
  If you're not a bodybuilder and not pregnant, it's one of the simplest useful calculations we have. You'd be amazed at how many medical decision-making tools[0] are very simple and are based on outcomes, not rigorous mathematical theory. [0] E.g. NEWS https://www.nice.org.uk/advice/mib205/chapter/The-technology https://www.nice.org.uk/advice/mib205/chapter/The-technology

lockhouse 3y ago

My eyes tell me that the obesity epidemic is real. Go to any public gathering of a couple dozen people or more and count the obese people you see. Heck, pick up a middle school yearbook, we’re starting obesity young these days. We were hoping our future was Star Trek, but it’s looking more like Wall-E.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

Buttons840 3y ago

Claiming that BMI is flawed is a lazy half-argument. Finish the argument, what should be used instead of BMI? Look at the correlation plots and draw your own BMI line [0]. I think the BMI lines look pretty good for men, but for women who fall into the common BMI range of 25 to 30, the BMI formula tends to underestimate the amount of body fat. It would be nice if everyone could get a DEXA scan regularly, but the data shows that 50% of people would find that they have even more body fat than the BMI charts predict. Again, it's worse for women, most women near the overweight threshold would find that their body fat is higher than expected. [0]: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2877506/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2877506/

nonameiguess 3y ago
This needs to become more widely known. BMI underestimates obesity, not the other way around. Studies that use better measures of body fat percentage consistently find even people who are "normal" weight are fatter than they think. It's why doctors are supposed to now use waist to height ratio as a secondary predictor.
zolland 3y ago
My issue with it is two fold. I think due to its generalized nature there are exceptions where it doesn't even apply (like people who are weight training, pregnant women etc). I also think it is becoming apparent that weight alone is not as useful of a metric as was once believed. It doesn't do a great job of identifying whether or not someone is healthy. So maybe it is the best that institutions can do to gauge the health of a population with the data given, but I think it could be improved drastically with extra metrics (I've heard of measurements around the body being used). There is a subset of people who are being misidentified as unhealthy or overweight. Idk how large it is but it seems significant.
- angrais 3y ago
  Obviously there are edge cases when applying statistical tools at a population level. That's not the purpose of BMI though. If you're pregnant or weight training then OBVIOUSLY your BMI score is not comparable to others. Most people are neither pregnant nor weight training. I'd even bet that most people haven't performed a weighted squat. >> I also think it is becoming apparent that weight alone is not as useful of a metric as was once believed. Being fat is bad for your health. That is a fact. No amount of body positivity advertisements will change that fact. It is healthier to be thinner than obese. Look at the graph above to see BMIs impact on other health outcomes. Also, if you think the obesity crisis is fake/blown up then simply go outside in most American cities and you'll see that many people are obese. > There is a subset of people who are being misidentified as unhealthy or overweight. Idk how large it is but it seems significant. Again, this is not relevant as the subset of people is so small compared with the whole population. The "data given" is included in BMI. Your relative weight is an indicator of multiple other health outcomes.

Cthulhu_ 3y ago

It's a starting point for sure, a more thorough research would look at body weight ratios. That said, while BMI is a skewed metric for muscular people, statistically it's still more representative of obesity than 'dry' weight.