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because it is unreadable and unmaintainable with all of these dependencies. Even in the description it says that it spiraled out of control at some point "Orig

because it is unreadable and unmaintainable with all of these dependencies. Even in the description it says that it spiraled out of control at some point "Originally conceived as an alternative firmware for the TS100, this firmware has evolved into a complex soldering iron control firmware."

nerdponx 3y ago
That doesn't imply anything is out of control. How do you know it's unreadable and unmaintainable? Just browsing the repo it seems pretty under control and organized to me. Firmware projects tend to get complicated, see also QMK for keyboards.
- hvasilev 3y ago
  Well, it is unmaintainable, because maintaining this set of dependencies is absurd for what this firmware is and it is unreadable, because I tried to read it and lost interest in a few minutes later, because of all the bullsh*t.
  - k_roy 3y ago
    This seems a bit more like a "you" issue. I dug through it and even compiled it quickly without an issue. The code looks clean, and well organized, and even supports multiple languages. Just because code isn't PHP, python, or "hello world", doesn't means that it's absurd and unmaintainable. Especially when you have the attention span of a may-fly and declare it to be "bullsh*t" after a few minutes
    - hvasilev 3y ago
      I don't think it is a "me" issue. On the contrary, I think this project has a lot of issues similar to what contemporary modern web development has. Generally firmware engineers know not to do this kind of stuff, since we have a highly derivative work that spans across decades. I'll give you an example - because of chip shortages I had to redo a couple of devices and their firmware for the past few years. I had to dig into code that hasn't been touched for 12 years on more than one occasions and I had no issue compiling it more than a decade later. The reason why is because people weren't trying to be fancy and they kept the dependencies to a minimum. Imagine if you stop pumping oxygen into this project for a month...
      - k_roy 3y ago
        > is because people weren't trying to be fancy and they kept the dependencies to a minimum I've been in professional development for 25 years now, and I've heard people say this before NUMEROUS times. You know who the people who say this are? People who live and breathe Dunning-Kruger and in reality, just unable to keep up and being unwilling to learn and evolve. Usually this is someone that likes to talk the talk, but put something that actually requires critical thinking and it's instantly broken, the libraries are broken, the language is broken. Don't worry, the developer isn't the problem, it's all the tools and scaffolding. And I've hired and fired at least 100 developers over the course of my career in Fortune 100 companies so I've seen them all. Whatever. Your opinion vs my opinion. Nobody said you had to run this on your soldering iron. And it's not like it's supporting a huge catalog of devices. It's just an alternative option for tinkerers. > Imagine if you stop pumping oxygen into this project for a month... And nothing will change... This is a simple OS for a $26 soldering iron with what amounts to a custom form-factor SBC. But don't worry, hvasilev knows everything about development and this project is bullsh*t.
        hvasilev 3y ago
        i honestly didn't read half of this post. i have no interest in engaging into this sort of conversation. have a nice day.
        lightedman 3y ago
        "You know who the people who say this are? People who live and breathe Dunning-Kruger" Or those of us that actually paid attention to good coding practice in the 90s. Try again when you've got 4 decades under your belt.
        k_roy 3y ago
        lol, are you seriously trying to state that there's been zero evolution in coding practice in 30+ years? Do you still using CVS as well? Is OOP the only way to live in your world? Java+Flash seems like a great way to make interactive web pages. Let's concat together some sql with user input and pass it straight into the database. Gotta ship that project with some Extreme Programming. Do you still believe a programmer with 20+ years of experience but can't navigate modern tools, scaffolding, and methodology and hasn't grown and evolved their skills is more valuable than a programmer with 2 years of experience? I am a hack programmer at best and I can admit that. But I've also worked with and managed the best and the worst of engineers and it takes about 5 seconds to smell out the BS and the people who are locked into their ways. Yeaaaaah.... read what I wrote again repeatably above until you don't represent it.

nerdponx 3y ago

That doesn't imply anything is out of control. How do you know it's unreadable and unmaintainable? Just browsing the repo it seems pretty under control and organized to me. Firmware projects tend to get complicated, see also QMK for keyboards.

hvasilev 3y ago
Well, it is unmaintainable, because maintaining this set of dependencies is absurd for what this firmware is and it is unreadable, because I tried to read it and lost interest in a few minutes later, because of all the bullsh*t.
- k_roy 3y ago
  This seems a bit more like a "you" issue. I dug through it and even compiled it quickly without an issue. The code looks clean, and well organized, and even supports multiple languages. Just because code isn't PHP, python, or "hello world", doesn't means that it's absurd and unmaintainable. Especially when you have the attention span of a may-fly and declare it to be "bullsh*t" after a few minutes
  - hvasilev 3y ago
    I don't think it is a "me" issue. On the contrary, I think this project has a lot of issues similar to what contemporary modern web development has. Generally firmware engineers know not to do this kind of stuff, since we have a highly derivative work that spans across decades. I'll give you an example - because of chip shortages I had to redo a couple of devices and their firmware for the past few years. I had to dig into code that hasn't been touched for 12 years on more than one occasions and I had no issue compiling it more than a decade later. The reason why is because people weren't trying to be fancy and they kept the dependencies to a minimum. Imagine if you stop pumping oxygen into this project for a month...
    - k_roy 3y ago
      > is because people weren't trying to be fancy and they kept the dependencies to a minimum I've been in professional development for 25 years now, and I've heard people say this before NUMEROUS times. You know who the people who say this are? People who live and breathe Dunning-Kruger and in reality, just unable to keep up and being unwilling to learn and evolve. Usually this is someone that likes to talk the talk, but put something that actually requires critical thinking and it's instantly broken, the libraries are broken, the language is broken. Don't worry, the developer isn't the problem, it's all the tools and scaffolding. And I've hired and fired at least 100 developers over the course of my career in Fortune 100 companies so I've seen them all. Whatever. Your opinion vs my opinion. Nobody said you had to run this on your soldering iron. And it's not like it's supporting a huge catalog of devices. It's just an alternative option for tinkerers. > Imagine if you stop pumping oxygen into this project for a month... And nothing will change... This is a simple OS for a $26 soldering iron with what amounts to a custom form-factor SBC. But don't worry, hvasilev knows everything about development and this project is bullsh*t.
      - hvasilev 3y ago
        i honestly didn't read half of this post. i have no interest in engaging into this sort of conversation. have a nice day.
      - lightedman 3y ago
        "You know who the people who say this are? People who live and breathe Dunning-Kruger" Or those of us that actually paid attention to good coding practice in the 90s. Try again when you've got 4 decades under your belt.
        k_roy 3y ago
        lol, are you seriously trying to state that there's been zero evolution in coding practice in 30+ years? Do you still using CVS as well? Is OOP the only way to live in your world? Java+Flash seems like a great way to make interactive web pages. Let's concat together some sql with user input and pass it straight into the database. Gotta ship that project with some Extreme Programming. Do you still believe a programmer with 20+ years of experience but can't navigate modern tools, scaffolding, and methodology and hasn't grown and evolved their skills is more valuable than a programmer with 2 years of experience? I am a hack programmer at best and I can admit that. But I've also worked with and managed the best and the worst of engineers and it takes about 5 seconds to smell out the BS and the people who are locked into their ways. Yeaaaaah.... read what I wrote again repeatably above until you don't represent it.