5 ms·

Great hardware held back by its software

leidenfrost 3y ago
It's not "bad". It's that it's very opinionated towards its real target: Designers, "high level" developers (e.g. web), and office 365 users. Of course it won't do the trick if you want to do something like linux or bsd development
- eitland 3y ago
  I say some of it is still just plain bad - and I say it as someone who is considering a MacBook this year: For example: the keys that Macs have instead of page up, page down, home and end still feels like four different "surprise me" buttons in every app I tried them in.
- BirAdam 3y ago
  I feel like all three major OSs are crap and have trade offs. It’s all about finding which one’s trade offs are ones you can live with. I can use any of the three, but each annoys me in different ways. I use macOS because I find it less annoying than Windows or Linux once I’ve set it up. The truly annoying bit is that each OS has a bit of exclusive software and a few exclusive features that are amazing… but I don’t want 3 OSs.
  - seanp2k2 3y ago
    and the fact that among the 3, MacOS is the hardest to virtualize on any other platform (technically against their ToS to do so on non-Apple hardware too last I checked half a dozen years ago). This effectively puts a stop to most practical use within bigger companies; it’s a safer bet to just buy a few Mac minis and toss them on a rack shelf somewhere, and a lot less of a headache when that on person who figured out how to make it work leaves.
  - nottorp 3y ago
    Well said. Mac OS is not the best - there is no best, they all suck. It's just the least annoying.
- seanp2k2 3y ago
  MacBook Pros definitely “do the trick” for hundreds of thousands of us software developers in Silicon Valley every day. Docker works fine on M1 MBPs and it’s not much of a chore to target amd64 with a Dockerfile eg FROM --platform=linux/amd64 python:3.7-alpine Plenty of the software that runs the internet is written, compiled, and tested on MacBooks, even if it may get rebuilt for production on some x86_64 server or AWS instance (possibly even an ARM-based Graviton instance). I agree that MacBooks have gotten less “pro” and now seem to cater to college kids who probably don’t need them more than they do to folks like Digital Imaging Technicians working on movie sets, but they’re still quite popular for the latter, even if some level of Windows and Linux machines have started taking up some of the roles (especially for things like VFX, see eg https://vfxplatform.com/ https://vfxplatform.com/ ) and sound and music recording / production / editing (plus Windows has had Cubase for a very long time, and before that, plenty of studios had Cubase for the Atari 520ST and Atari 1040ST back in the late 80s).
leidenfrost 3y ago
And, tbh, at least MacOS has Independent Virtual Desktops per monitor. I'd sell my soul to have that on KDE
- sillystuff 3y ago
  If you are OK with using a different window manager, Enlightenment has independent virtual desktops per monitor too. Enlightenment versions since 17 have been a bit hit and miss for being stable vs. frustratingly buggy, though. Enlightenment 25 has been alright (version packaged in Bookworm (current Debian stable).
apatheticonion 3y ago
Honestly, a MBP running Linux with full hardware support would be the best laptop on Earth

It's not "bad". It's that it's very opinionated towards its real target: Designers, "high level" developers (e.g. web), and office 365 users. Of course it won't do the trick if you want to do something like linux or bsd development

eitland 3y ago
I say some of it is still just plain bad - and I say it as someone who is considering a MacBook this year: For example: the keys that Macs have instead of page up, page down, home and end still feels like four different "surprise me" buttons in every app I tried them in.
BirAdam 3y ago
I feel like all three major OSs are crap and have trade offs. It’s all about finding which one’s trade offs are ones you can live with. I can use any of the three, but each annoys me in different ways. I use macOS because I find it less annoying than Windows or Linux once I’ve set it up. The truly annoying bit is that each OS has a bit of exclusive software and a few exclusive features that are amazing… but I don’t want 3 OSs.
- seanp2k2 3y ago
  and the fact that among the 3, MacOS is the hardest to virtualize on any other platform (technically against their ToS to do so on non-Apple hardware too last I checked half a dozen years ago). This effectively puts a stop to most practical use within bigger companies; it’s a safer bet to just buy a few Mac minis and toss them on a rack shelf somewhere, and a lot less of a headache when that on person who figured out how to make it work leaves.
- nottorp 3y ago
  Well said. Mac OS is not the best - there is no best, they all suck. It's just the least annoying.
seanp2k2 3y ago
MacBook Pros definitely “do the trick” for hundreds of thousands of us software developers in Silicon Valley every day. Docker works fine on M1 MBPs and it’s not much of a chore to target amd64 with a Dockerfile eg FROM --platform=linux/amd64 python:3.7-alpine Plenty of the software that runs the internet is written, compiled, and tested on MacBooks, even if it may get rebuilt for production on some x86_64 server or AWS instance (possibly even an ARM-based Graviton instance). I agree that MacBooks have gotten less “pro” and now seem to cater to college kids who probably don’t need them more than they do to folks like Digital Imaging Technicians working on movie sets, but they’re still quite popular for the latter, even if some level of Windows and Linux machines have started taking up some of the roles (especially for things like VFX, see eg https://vfxplatform.com/ https://vfxplatform.com/ ) and sound and music recording / production / editing (plus Windows has had Cubase for a very long time, and before that, plenty of studios had Cubase for the Atari 520ST and Atari 1040ST back in the late 80s).

leidenfrost 3y ago

And, tbh, at least MacOS has Independent Virtual Desktops per monitor. I'd sell my soul to have that on KDE

sillystuff 3y ago
If you are OK with using a different window manager, Enlightenment has independent virtual desktops per monitor too. Enlightenment versions since 17 have been a bit hit and miss for being stable vs. frustratingly buggy, though. Enlightenment 25 has been alright (version packaged in Bookworm (current Debian stable).

apatheticonion 3y ago

Honestly, a MBP running Linux with full hardware support would be the best laptop on Earth