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australians deeply hate/fear china at a visceral level, which is pretty much the only thing that matters in this relationship. they'll gladly sacrifice their o

australians deeply hate/fear china at a visceral level, which is pretty much the only thing that matters in this relationship. they'll gladly sacrifice their own economic growth and autonomy to bolster the US hegemony. this is patently obvious to anyone with 2 brain cells to rub together. it's less than 20 million white people sitting on a continent the size of the US. they need protection at any cost, no questions asked. this isn't rocket science. DC wears the commonwealth crown these days, london is a literal sideshow/museum/slush fund and canberra is basically just a military/listening outpost with a mining station attached.

roenxi 3y ago
"hate" is too strong. Australia and China have both prospered together for many years. Australia has too much to be thankful to China for. It is more likely pure fear. If current trends continue, at some point Australia'll have to knuckle under and start aligning ourselves with Chinese policy or get squished by them. And If the US/South America dynamic is any standard to go by, they'll probably start taking a more active role in moderating Australian politics which isn't welcome to the current politicians.
ganeshkrishnan 3y ago
It's not the fear of china. Australia cannot make an independent decision without facing the wrath of the US. There is no way Australia or UK can part ways with US diplomatically
- dkjaudyeqooe 3y ago
  According to your comment, it's not fear/hate of China, it's fear/hate of the US.
  - dirtyid 3y ago
    IMO more US discourse power via influence over news orgs, ngos, think tanks etc allows them to control who to hate/fear. Both geopolitical adversaries AND anti US candidates in partner countries. Domestic media in LIO countries can't compete against motivated US propaganda, nevermind PRC propaganda. It's inability to counter US interests when push comes to shove. Especially AU who is maximally/existentially integrated in US defense, they don't have the conditions to pursue independant foreign policy even if they wanted to.
    - inconceivable 3y ago
      yes - the US tells them who to fear and who to hate, and why. the entire anglosphere follows the beat of their drummer. it's obvious if you ever travel outside of the 5 eyes countries + NATO, which i'm guessing like 90% of english speakers don't, and never will.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
sandworm101 3y ago
The UK also has a strategic position as part of the giuk gap.
keepamovin 3y ago
I’m sorry you had this experience, but it’s true. Australians are often deeply racist. However, Chinese are too. It’s unfortunate, but it’s not the main issue. One issue Australians have is their vastly inferior (in general) level of rhetorical facility on these matters, as compared to Chinese. We just don’t have the quality of critical thought that many young Chinese are displaying. This sounds ridiculous, I know, but again it’s true. If Australia is going to effectively think about, and eventually negotiate, its place in the changing order, its citizens need to get a lot more cosmopolitan, critical and perceptive about international affairs. For educated Chinese, I suspect thinking critically about international perceptions and power (and possibly even relations) is almost second nature: it makes sense to have it as a National pastime for an emerging power. Australians need to recognize the necessity of this for their own position, too, and work to let go of the limiting policy dogma that continues to constrain and limit their political thinking. It may not be too useful to promote Paul Keating as a role model for this type of critical faculty as his stances will provoke too much opposition for people to want to admire or follow him. Yet the truth is his kind of contrarian policy thinking is exactly more of what Australian needs, even if of not exactly the same flavor. Unfortunately, we’ve been a victim of our own success, and our economic buffer will conceivably for the midterm, insulate us from the urgent need to develop the critical faculties that are so essential to our long-term future. In other words, people can say “why do I need to rethink it? we’re doing great.”
- mistrial9 3y ago
  minor addition to the above -- China has an abundance of computer science skill at the population level, and specialist University-level math and computer science in numbers similar to entire populations elsewhere. The cliche failing of Chinese thinkers - lack of originality - is not nearly as much of an impediment in CS. The number of DeepLearning and AI academic papers in the last five years or so, might not be "the" winning paper, but thousands are good enough.
- piuantiderp 3y ago
  Reminds me of this piece jewel of a piece, there are deep cultural problems in the west: https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2014/04/russias-diplomats-are-better-than-ours-105773/ https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2014/04/russias-dipl...

roenxi 3y ago

"hate" is too strong. Australia and China have both prospered together for many years. Australia has too much to be thankful to China for. It is more likely pure fear. If current trends continue, at some point Australia'll have to knuckle under and start aligning ourselves with Chinese policy or get squished by them. And If the US/South America dynamic is any standard to go by, they'll probably start taking a more active role in moderating Australian politics which isn't welcome to the current politicians.

ganeshkrishnan 3y ago

It's not the fear of china. Australia cannot make an independent decision without facing the wrath of the US. There is no way Australia or UK can part ways with US diplomatically

dkjaudyeqooe 3y ago
According to your comment, it's not fear/hate of China, it's fear/hate of the US.
- dirtyid 3y ago
  IMO more US discourse power via influence over news orgs, ngos, think tanks etc allows them to control who to hate/fear. Both geopolitical adversaries AND anti US candidates in partner countries. Domestic media in LIO countries can't compete against motivated US propaganda, nevermind PRC propaganda. It's inability to counter US interests when push comes to shove. Especially AU who is maximally/existentially integrated in US defense, they don't have the conditions to pursue independant foreign policy even if they wanted to.
  - inconceivable 3y ago
    yes - the US tells them who to fear and who to hate, and why. the entire anglosphere follows the beat of their drummer. it's obvious if you ever travel outside of the 5 eyes countries + NATO, which i'm guessing like 90% of english speakers don't, and never will.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

sandworm101 3y ago

The UK also has a strategic position as part of the giuk gap.

keepamovin 3y ago

I’m sorry you had this experience, but it’s true. Australians are often deeply racist. However, Chinese are too. It’s unfortunate, but it’s not the main issue. One issue Australians have is their vastly inferior (in general) level of rhetorical facility on these matters, as compared to Chinese. We just don’t have the quality of critical thought that many young Chinese are displaying. This sounds ridiculous, I know, but again it’s true. If Australia is going to effectively think about, and eventually negotiate, its place in the changing order, its citizens need to get a lot more cosmopolitan, critical and perceptive about international affairs. For educated Chinese, I suspect thinking critically about international perceptions and power (and possibly even relations) is almost second nature: it makes sense to have it as a National pastime for an emerging power. Australians need to recognize the necessity of this for their own position, too, and work to let go of the limiting policy dogma that continues to constrain and limit their political thinking. It may not be too useful to promote Paul Keating as a role model for this type of critical faculty as his stances will provoke too much opposition for people to want to admire or follow him. Yet the truth is his kind of contrarian policy thinking is exactly more of what Australian needs, even if of not exactly the same flavor. Unfortunately, we’ve been a victim of our own success, and our economic buffer will conceivably for the midterm, insulate us from the urgent need to develop the critical faculties that are so essential to our long-term future. In other words, people can say “why do I need to rethink it? we’re doing great.”

mistrial9 3y ago
minor addition to the above -- China has an abundance of computer science skill at the population level, and specialist University-level math and computer science in numbers similar to entire populations elsewhere. The cliche failing of Chinese thinkers - lack of originality - is not nearly as much of an impediment in CS. The number of DeepLearning and AI academic papers in the last five years or so, might not be "the" winning paper, but thousands are good enough.
piuantiderp 3y ago
Reminds me of this piece jewel of a piece, there are deep cultural problems in the west: https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2014/04/russias-diplomats-are-better-than-ours-105773/ https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2014/04/russias-dipl...