6 ms·

United states would benefit greatly from approaching antitrust the way EU does it. For folks that complain about the big {pharma, tech, cell, internet, insuranc

by hkatx 3y ago

United states would benefit greatly from approaching antitrust the way EU does it. For folks that complain about the big {pharma, tech, cell, internet, insurance} you can argue that economies of scale tends to benefit consumer, but when companies become near monopolies it gives them enormous pricing power. Parents would know that diaper prices have increased a lot and that because P&G is the only game in town.

zeroonetwothree 3y ago
The US has far more innovation than the EU. It’s likely primarily because of less corporate regulation. What would the modern world be like if we only had EU companies?
- andrewfurey2003 3y ago
  Its still necessary, there has to be a balance between innovation and complete monopoly on tech
- plumarr 3y ago
  That it's due to the corporate regulation has to be proven. Being an european, I would say that the first cause is cultural. Innovation for the sack of innovation isn't particurlaly viewed as positive as in the US. In many circle it's even seen as negative. Same thing for entrepreneurship, as there is a good chunk of people that see Businesses, especialy big ones, as an ennemy.
  - WhereIsTheTruth 3y ago
    > Being an european, I would say that the first cause is cultural. Innovation for the sack of innovation isn't particurlaly viewed as positive as in the US. In many circle it's even seen as negative. Same thing for entrepreneurship, as there is a good chunk of people that see Businesses, especialy big ones, as an ennemy. Don't be revisionist, Europe is a continent full of innovations, both industrial, scientific, and artistic This negative mindset only appeared recently, and it seems to be spreading, so what has changed? Perhaps WW I/II, the Marshal Plan and propaganda? Looks like it's very well documented https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marshall_Plan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marshall_Plan The death of European's giants began: "The Americans insisted that the German coal sales monopoly, the Deutscher Kohlenverkauf (DKV), should lose its monopoly, and that the steel industries should no longer own the coalmines.[12]: 351 It was agreed that the DKV would be broken up into four independent sales agencies." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Coal_and_Steel_Community https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Coal_and_Steel_Commun... It's like if Europe asked the US to break Microsoft into multiple small companies because it is too big lol This is what affected Europe's ability to innovate, loosing its big industries and its ability to form big and global companies, instead was forced to open its market to the US which could expand its giants as they wish.. Oh and this one is interesting too: "The loan was followed in 1948 by a free grant of $2.3 billion from the Marshall Plan, with no repayment. In exchange, French cinemas would replace the numerical quota with a "screen quota". This meant that French cinemas were required to show French-made films for four weeks out of every thirteen and leave the other nine weeks of every quarter open to free competition, namely from American films.[5]" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blum%E2%80%93Byrnes_agreement https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blum%E2%80%93Byrnes_agreement https://www.alphavillejournal.com/Issue17/HTML/ReviewEtem.html https://www.alphavillejournal.com/Issue17/HTML/ReviewEtem.ht...
- layer8 3y ago
  Teams was based on Skype, which was an Estonian company and product, and also on Parlano MindAlign, originally developed by UBS Group AG, a Swiss company.
  - ExoticPearTree 3y ago
    Skype also sucked big time, so basically the only thing people gained from the MS acquisition was even more pain and misery with the Skype for Business and Lync products.
    - bombcar 3y ago
      Teams is based on Skype for business which is rebranded lync and really has nothing to do with Skype beyond buying the name.
- sofixa 3y ago
  > The US has far more innovation than the EU In what areas? Software? Fraud (including anything from crypto shit through Theranos and Juicero)? Maybe automobiles and space, maybe? In other areas such as aviation, banking, healthcare, music streaming (did you know that practically most music streaming services outside those created by the giants of Apple, Amazon, Google as an offshoot project are European innovations - Spotify, Deezer, Tidal, Qobuz), maybe edtech and biotech, space and transportation, automobiles etc. European companies out innovate American ones. Innovation for the sake of innovation isn't cherished in the EU, and of course it's harder to be successful in 27 different small markets than it is in one massive one. Regulations playing a part in possible, but do you have any sources to substantiate your claim it's the primary reason?
  - jensensbutton 3y ago
    Given the size of the only companies you were able to list it doesn't seem like innovation for the sake of impact is cherished either.
    - sofixa 3y ago
      I gave one example - music streaming companies because I find it funny practically all of the dedicated ones are from the EU - and you interpret it as something to scoff at? Spotify is literally the biggest music and podcast streaming company, and among the first in the business. Back Market, Doctolib, Ornikar, HelloFresh, GitPod, N26, Yubikey, Revolut have plenty of impact and innovation as startups. But maybe market cap is what impact means for you, so okay - Airbus? VW? Stellantis? Alstom? Thales? Safran? Sanofi? Siemens? Robert Bosch? Bayer? Literally among the best in the world in their respective branches. For instance, Airbus is outselling and outengineering and outinnovating and outmarketing and out-everything Boeing. Did you know that apart from them not being criminally negligent with basic safety systems, they're also heavily investing in all sorts of alternatives for the future of aviation? They have projects for battery-electric and hydrogen-powered airplanes, delta-wing designs, and collaborate with engine manufacturers (to be fair, it's a French-American Joint Venture) on innovative engine designs. Meanwhile Boeing's only innovation is NASA giving them a ton of money for them to test a new wing design for them. Only some big names I could think of in France and Germany (and Spain and Netherlands and UK for Airbus). I really should start a list that I keep up for next time this topic comes up, people regularly underestimate innovation in the EU, or are completely unaware that said innovative company is European.
rvz 3y ago
Let's hope that the regulators learn from their mistakes after taking bribes [0] from the same tech companies to slow down their monopolistic actions from being scrutinised in recent years. We have given them enough time and they will never change. So we'll start with Alphabet which in September there is progress to put them on trial over their monopoly in search and ads. [1] [2], Then Microsoft who's dominance is overdue to be broken up after destroying Slack. Finally, Meta. Which once they reach another billion users with another social network product via Threads without federating is almost certain to be investigated this time. [0] https://www.reuters.com/technology/google-facebook-microsoft-top-eu-lobbying-spending-study-2021-08-30/ https://www.reuters.com/technology/google-facebook-microsoft... [1] https://www.cnbc.com/2020/10/20/doj-antitrust-lawsuit-against-google.html https://www.cnbc.com/2020/10/20/doj-antitrust-lawsuit-agains... [2] https://www.cnbc.com/2023/01/24/doj-files-second-antitrust-lawsuit-against-google.html https://www.cnbc.com/2023/01/24/doj-files-second-antitrust-l...
lotsofpulp 3y ago
> Parents would know that diaper prices have increased a lot and that because P&G is the only game in town. Kimberly Clark is a huge diaper manufacturer in the US, they make Huggies and Kirkland diapers. The market is probably mostly split between P&G and Kimberly Clark though.

by hkatx 3y ago

zeroonetwothree 3y ago

The US has far more innovation than the EU. It’s likely primarily because of less corporate regulation. What would the modern world be like if we only had EU companies?

andrewfurey2003 3y ago
Its still necessary, there has to be a balance between innovation and complete monopoly on tech
plumarr 3y ago
That it's due to the corporate regulation has to be proven. Being an european, I would say that the first cause is cultural. Innovation for the sack of innovation isn't particurlaly viewed as positive as in the US. In many circle it's even seen as negative. Same thing for entrepreneurship, as there is a good chunk of people that see Businesses, especialy big ones, as an ennemy.
- WhereIsTheTruth 3y ago
  > Being an european, I would say that the first cause is cultural. Innovation for the sack of innovation isn't particurlaly viewed as positive as in the US. In many circle it's even seen as negative. Same thing for entrepreneurship, as there is a good chunk of people that see Businesses, especialy big ones, as an ennemy. Don't be revisionist, Europe is a continent full of innovations, both industrial, scientific, and artistic This negative mindset only appeared recently, and it seems to be spreading, so what has changed? Perhaps WW I/II, the Marshal Plan and propaganda? Looks like it's very well documented https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marshall_Plan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marshall_Plan The death of European's giants began: "The Americans insisted that the German coal sales monopoly, the Deutscher Kohlenverkauf (DKV), should lose its monopoly, and that the steel industries should no longer own the coalmines.[12]: 351 It was agreed that the DKV would be broken up into four independent sales agencies." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Coal_and_Steel_Community https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Coal_and_Steel_Commun... It's like if Europe asked the US to break Microsoft into multiple small companies because it is too big lol This is what affected Europe's ability to innovate, loosing its big industries and its ability to form big and global companies, instead was forced to open its market to the US which could expand its giants as they wish.. Oh and this one is interesting too: "The loan was followed in 1948 by a free grant of $2.3 billion from the Marshall Plan, with no repayment. In exchange, French cinemas would replace the numerical quota with a "screen quota". This meant that French cinemas were required to show French-made films for four weeks out of every thirteen and leave the other nine weeks of every quarter open to free competition, namely from American films.[5]" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blum%E2%80%93Byrnes_agreement https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blum%E2%80%93Byrnes_agreement https://www.alphavillejournal.com/Issue17/HTML/ReviewEtem.html https://www.alphavillejournal.com/Issue17/HTML/ReviewEtem.ht...
layer8 3y ago
Teams was based on Skype, which was an Estonian company and product, and also on Parlano MindAlign, originally developed by UBS Group AG, a Swiss company.
- ExoticPearTree 3y ago
  Skype also sucked big time, so basically the only thing people gained from the MS acquisition was even more pain and misery with the Skype for Business and Lync products.
  - bombcar 3y ago
    Teams is based on Skype for business which is rebranded lync and really has nothing to do with Skype beyond buying the name.
sofixa 3y ago
> The US has far more innovation than the EU In what areas? Software? Fraud (including anything from crypto shit through Theranos and Juicero)? Maybe automobiles and space, maybe? In other areas such as aviation, banking, healthcare, music streaming (did you know that practically most music streaming services outside those created by the giants of Apple, Amazon, Google as an offshoot project are European innovations - Spotify, Deezer, Tidal, Qobuz), maybe edtech and biotech, space and transportation, automobiles etc. European companies out innovate American ones. Innovation for the sake of innovation isn't cherished in the EU, and of course it's harder to be successful in 27 different small markets than it is in one massive one. Regulations playing a part in possible, but do you have any sources to substantiate your claim it's the primary reason?
- jensensbutton 3y ago
  Given the size of the only companies you were able to list it doesn't seem like innovation for the sake of impact is cherished either.
  - sofixa 3y ago
    I gave one example - music streaming companies because I find it funny practically all of the dedicated ones are from the EU - and you interpret it as something to scoff at? Spotify is literally the biggest music and podcast streaming company, and among the first in the business. Back Market, Doctolib, Ornikar, HelloFresh, GitPod, N26, Yubikey, Revolut have plenty of impact and innovation as startups. But maybe market cap is what impact means for you, so okay - Airbus? VW? Stellantis? Alstom? Thales? Safran? Sanofi? Siemens? Robert Bosch? Bayer? Literally among the best in the world in their respective branches. For instance, Airbus is outselling and outengineering and outinnovating and outmarketing and out-everything Boeing. Did you know that apart from them not being criminally negligent with basic safety systems, they're also heavily investing in all sorts of alternatives for the future of aviation? They have projects for battery-electric and hydrogen-powered airplanes, delta-wing designs, and collaborate with engine manufacturers (to be fair, it's a French-American Joint Venture) on innovative engine designs. Meanwhile Boeing's only innovation is NASA giving them a ton of money for them to test a new wing design for them. Only some big names I could think of in France and Germany (and Spain and Netherlands and UK for Airbus). I really should start a list that I keep up for next time this topic comes up, people regularly underestimate innovation in the EU, or are completely unaware that said innovative company is European.

rvz 3y ago

Let's hope that the regulators learn from their mistakes after taking bribes [0] from the same tech companies to slow down their monopolistic actions from being scrutinised in recent years. We have given them enough time and they will never change. So we'll start with Alphabet which in September there is progress to put them on trial over their monopoly in search and ads. [1] [2], Then Microsoft who's dominance is overdue to be broken up after destroying Slack. Finally, Meta. Which once they reach another billion users with another social network product via Threads without federating is almost certain to be investigated this time. [0] https://www.reuters.com/technology/google-facebook-microsoft-top-eu-lobbying-spending-study-2021-08-30/ https://www.reuters.com/technology/google-facebook-microsoft... [1] https://www.cnbc.com/2020/10/20/doj-antitrust-lawsuit-against-google.html https://www.cnbc.com/2020/10/20/doj-antitrust-lawsuit-agains... [2] https://www.cnbc.com/2023/01/24/doj-files-second-antitrust-lawsuit-against-google.html https://www.cnbc.com/2023/01/24/doj-files-second-antitrust-l...

lotsofpulp 3y ago

> Parents would know that diaper prices have increased a lot and that because P&G is the only game in town. Kimberly Clark is a huge diaper manufacturer in the US, they make Huggies and Kirkland diapers. The market is probably mostly split between P&G and Kimberly Clark though.