6 ms·

? They developed an entirely new platform for EVs [1] They started a subsidiary for self driving with around a thousand employees [2] They released EVs, the

? They developed an entirely new platform for EVs [1] They started a subsidiary for self driving with around a thousand employees [2] They released EVs, the bZ3, the bZ4x, the Lexus RZ Current battery technology is a huge reason why people don't switch to EVs. Everyone I know talks about the charging times, needing to find a supercharger route when going long distance. A 10 minute charge on that massive range would convince me to switch easily. 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_New_Global_Architecture#e-TNGA https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_New_Global_Architecture... 2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woven_by_Toyota,_Inc https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woven_by_Toyota,_Inc.

meling 3y ago
Yeah, but not until 2027 or so it seems, and then you’ll have to drag around an ic engine as well. Seems a bit of a waste for a car with that much battery range. My dad just bought the bZ4x, I’m not particularly impressed, but that’s just my opinion. My dad likes it, mainly because he wasn’t comfortable using the touch screen while driving to adjust things like windshield wipers etc, which I think is a good decision for him. But what poor marketing department came up with an unpronounceable name like that.
- Eldandan 3y ago
  Ah, yes, the renowned bz4x, or busy forks for the initiated.
  - nonsense_stream 3y ago
    It's called "the captcha" in China
pornel 3y ago
Hyundai/Kia needs about 20 minutes of charging per 3 hours of driving. The important difference from ICE refuelling is that you don't have to be by the car when it charges. I've taken road trips across Europe, and it's been fine. 20min is about as much as I need for a bathroom break and to get a coffee.
- gnicholas 3y ago
  Hyundai/Kia do have great maximum charge rates...but the rub is finding a charger that supports those speeds, is not broken, and is not occupied. Is this trivial in Europe? It sure isn't here in the US (even in CA, which has relatively higher adoption rates of EVs).
  - zlsa 3y ago
    It is trivial in the US if you're able to use Tesla's supercharger network.
    - gnicholas 3y ago
      But that’s not compatible with Hyundais or Kias, which is what GP was talking about.
    - KennyBlanken 3y ago
      Telsa's proposed, future v4 standard is still only capable of 250kW and meanwhile CCS stations have been deployed for years now that can do 400kW, with 700kW chargers being demonstrated. It's an outdated, proprietary standard in both form and function, even if Tesla claims it's a public standard; they exert total business control over the plug and their charger network. There's no way they'll allow a random car to plug into a supercharger ('safety' and such), no way they'll allow any other payment methods on their network. There's no way they'll support configuring your Tesla to work with third party NACS chargers and payment systems. The only chargers that exist with NACS connectors are in one country and controlled by Tesla. The only cars with NACS plugs are (at the moment) Teslas and the only proposed additional users are companies that have signed agreements with Tesla. This is why it's so infuriating that Ford, GM, and Tesla did what they did. They just effectively killed CCS, and thus dealt a major blow to EV adoption in the US for the sake of a market share grab. 800v architecture meant EVs finally could lay claim to being practical for long distance charging. Plug in at a rest stop, everyone hits the bathrooms, maybe a snack, stretch their legs, and the car is nearly full again. A lot of errands and such fit into the 18-20 minute window a nearly-full-charge takes. "NACS" can't offer anywhere near a 18 minute 10-to-80 charge. The US version of CCS is far from perfect; the weight of the cable causes connection issues due to the poor mechanical design of the socket, and we never should have had a unique CCS connector from Europe to begin with. But Tesla's "North American Charging Standard" is outdated and their supercharger network in addition to being outdated has been woefully underfunded and undersized for a while; with Ford and Chevy piling onto the network, that's going to get even worse. What's even more infuriating is that in Europe, there is no such thing as "Superchargers", because the EU forced Tesla to use CCS2. And meanwhile, congress hasn't even noticed that Tesla just effectively captured the US EV charging market. Ask yourself this: what could possibly go wrong giving the world's richest man - an unhinged narcissist to boot - exclusive control over how electric vehicles are charged in the US?
panick21_ 3y ago
> They started a subsidiary for self driving with around a thousand employees [2] Lots of 'self driving' investments have invested a huge amount without much benefit. > They released EVs, the bZ3, the bZ4x, the Lexus RZ Their total EV sales are tiny. The bZ4x is universally mocked at one of the worst EV in class and not actually cheaper then the competition. > Current battery technology is a huge reason why people don't switch to EVs. And yet huge amounts of people are switching to EV and the actual limit is batteries supply limitations not battery size.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
KRAKRISMOTT 3y ago
You forgot their most famous joint venture clusterfuck Made in Japan. Designed by Tesla in California. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_RAV4_EV https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_RAV4_EV
- propogandist 3y ago
  [dead]
duped 3y ago
Car manufacturers can't make enough EVs to keep up with demand, so you might not be talking to the right people.
- hnburnsy 3y ago
  Depends on the car\manufacture... Unsold electric cars are piling up on dealer lots https://www.axios.com/2023/07/10/unsold-electric-cars-are-piling-up-on-dealer-lots https://www.axios.com/2023/07/10/unsold-electric-cars-are-pi...
  - duped 3y ago
    Having tried to buy one recently I think the discrepancy is that dealers wasted their allotments on high-trim EVs expecting people to be willing to pay 15-20k premiums just to drive an EV. If you want a lower trim model you are going to be waiting weeks to months for it to arrive.
tnel77 3y ago
For me, it’s the price and look. I just want a normal looking vehicle that doesn’t cost $80k. An EV Toyota Tacoma for like $30-40k would be amazing.
TheRealSteel 3y ago
I just drove from Brisbane to Melbourne in one weekend (1,800km in one weekend) -- to pick up a model 3 I bought interstate, actually -- and I assure you, charging was not an issue. The car automatically adds supercharger stops to the map and I didn't need to stay at one for longer than half an hour. Okay, Toyota has technically released EVs. Still a half assed effort, and I think still a fair criticism - I can't buy one, as they don't sell it in Australia, and they barely promote them. They're not behind EVs in any meaningful way. I mean, the fact that I just bought an EV and have never even heard of any of Toyota's says something. No mention of them on their Australian website. Never heard of them on social media either, and I'm constantly watching videos about EVs. Kodak released digital cameras eventually. Blackberry released Android phones eventually. Didn't mean much, it was too little too late -- they ignored the writing on the wall for too long.

meling 3y ago

Yeah, but not until 2027 or so it seems, and then you’ll have to drag around an ic engine as well. Seems a bit of a waste for a car with that much battery range. My dad just bought the bZ4x, I’m not particularly impressed, but that’s just my opinion. My dad likes it, mainly because he wasn’t comfortable using the touch screen while driving to adjust things like windshield wipers etc, which I think is a good decision for him. But what poor marketing department came up with an unpronounceable name like that.

Eldandan 3y ago
Ah, yes, the renowned bz4x, or busy forks for the initiated.
- nonsense_stream 3y ago
  It's called "the captcha" in China

pornel 3y ago

Hyundai/Kia needs about 20 minutes of charging per 3 hours of driving. The important difference from ICE refuelling is that you don't have to be by the car when it charges. I've taken road trips across Europe, and it's been fine. 20min is about as much as I need for a bathroom break and to get a coffee.

gnicholas 3y ago
Hyundai/Kia do have great maximum charge rates...but the rub is finding a charger that supports those speeds, is not broken, and is not occupied. Is this trivial in Europe? It sure isn't here in the US (even in CA, which has relatively higher adoption rates of EVs).
- zlsa 3y ago
  It is trivial in the US if you're able to use Tesla's supercharger network.
  - gnicholas 3y ago
    But that’s not compatible with Hyundais or Kias, which is what GP was talking about.
  - KennyBlanken 3y ago
    Telsa's proposed, future v4 standard is still only capable of 250kW and meanwhile CCS stations have been deployed for years now that can do 400kW, with 700kW chargers being demonstrated. It's an outdated, proprietary standard in both form and function, even if Tesla claims it's a public standard; they exert total business control over the plug and their charger network. There's no way they'll allow a random car to plug into a supercharger ('safety' and such), no way they'll allow any other payment methods on their network. There's no way they'll support configuring your Tesla to work with third party NACS chargers and payment systems. The only chargers that exist with NACS connectors are in one country and controlled by Tesla. The only cars with NACS plugs are (at the moment) Teslas and the only proposed additional users are companies that have signed agreements with Tesla. This is why it's so infuriating that Ford, GM, and Tesla did what they did. They just effectively killed CCS, and thus dealt a major blow to EV adoption in the US for the sake of a market share grab. 800v architecture meant EVs finally could lay claim to being practical for long distance charging. Plug in at a rest stop, everyone hits the bathrooms, maybe a snack, stretch their legs, and the car is nearly full again. A lot of errands and such fit into the 18-20 minute window a nearly-full-charge takes. "NACS" can't offer anywhere near a 18 minute 10-to-80 charge. The US version of CCS is far from perfect; the weight of the cable causes connection issues due to the poor mechanical design of the socket, and we never should have had a unique CCS connector from Europe to begin with. But Tesla's "North American Charging Standard" is outdated and their supercharger network in addition to being outdated has been woefully underfunded and undersized for a while; with Ford and Chevy piling onto the network, that's going to get even worse. What's even more infuriating is that in Europe, there is no such thing as "Superchargers", because the EU forced Tesla to use CCS2. And meanwhile, congress hasn't even noticed that Tesla just effectively captured the US EV charging market. Ask yourself this: what could possibly go wrong giving the world's richest man - an unhinged narcissist to boot - exclusive control over how electric vehicles are charged in the US?

panick21_ 3y ago

> They started a subsidiary for self driving with around a thousand employees [2] Lots of 'self driving' investments have invested a huge amount without much benefit. > They released EVs, the bZ3, the bZ4x, the Lexus RZ Their total EV sales are tiny. The bZ4x is universally mocked at one of the worst EV in class and not actually cheaper then the competition. > Current battery technology is a huge reason why people don't switch to EVs. And yet huge amounts of people are switching to EV and the actual limit is batteries supply limitations not battery size.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

KRAKRISMOTT 3y ago

You forgot their most famous joint venture clusterfuck Made in Japan. Designed by Tesla in California. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_RAV4_EV https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_RAV4_EV

propogandist 3y ago
[dead]

duped 3y ago

Car manufacturers can't make enough EVs to keep up with demand, so you might not be talking to the right people.

hnburnsy 3y ago
Depends on the car\manufacture... Unsold electric cars are piling up on dealer lots https://www.axios.com/2023/07/10/unsold-electric-cars-are-piling-up-on-dealer-lots https://www.axios.com/2023/07/10/unsold-electric-cars-are-pi...
- duped 3y ago
  Having tried to buy one recently I think the discrepancy is that dealers wasted their allotments on high-trim EVs expecting people to be willing to pay 15-20k premiums just to drive an EV. If you want a lower trim model you are going to be waiting weeks to months for it to arrive.

tnel77 3y ago

For me, it’s the price and look. I just want a normal looking vehicle that doesn’t cost $80k. An EV Toyota Tacoma for like $30-40k would be amazing.

TheRealSteel 3y ago

I just drove from Brisbane to Melbourne in one weekend (1,800km in one weekend) -- to pick up a model 3 I bought interstate, actually -- and I assure you, charging was not an issue. The car automatically adds supercharger stops to the map and I didn't need to stay at one for longer than half an hour. Okay, Toyota has technically released EVs. Still a half assed effort, and I think still a fair criticism - I can't buy one, as they don't sell it in Australia, and they barely promote them. They're not behind EVs in any meaningful way. I mean, the fact that I just bought an EV and have never even heard of any of Toyota's says something. No mention of them on their Australian website. Never heard of them on social media either, and I'm constantly watching videos about EVs. Kodak released digital cameras eventually. Blackberry released Android phones eventually. Didn't mean much, it was too little too late -- they ignored the writing on the wall for too long.