17 ms·

> The fundamental loophole is that "the free market" is practically a religion in the United States Blaming something for being practically a religion is about

> The fundamental loophole is that "the free market" is practically a religion in the United States Blaming something for being practically a religion is about as empty a piece of reasoning as it's possible to make. Why not actually suggest a solution rather than just throwing your hand up at the whole thing?

lapcat 3y ago
> Why not actually suggest a solution rather than just throwing your hand up at the whole thing? A solution to which problem? The solution to the problem of private equity running the medical system is government-run health care, like in most other nations, who spend less on health care per person than the US but whose populations are nonetheless healthier. Or are you talking about the problem of the severe ideological divide? Or some other problem?
- throw47474777j 3y ago
  > but whose populations are nonetheless healthier. Population health is not caused by medicine. > Or are you talking about the problem of the severe ideological divide? Since you suggested that ideology is the “problem”, I would in fact be very interested to know if you have any ideas about how to solve it?
- mfer 3y ago
  > The solution to the problem of private equity running the medical system is government-run health care A super majority of the medical R&D is funded by the US system. The gov run systems pay for a minimum of it. Of the U.S. adopts a system like other gov run countries where does the medical R&D get financed?
  - fallenasleep 3y ago
    US americans are already spending the money that funds that R&D. One possible solution that occurs to me just now (and is therefore very half baked) is that there must be a way they could continue to spend that money to fund research, while also having a functioning medical safety net
  - bowyakka 3y ago
    Be a shame if someone looked up this on Google and found that it's not as outsized as some think https://data.oecd.org/rd/gross-domestic-spending-on-r-d.htm https://data.oecd.org/rd/gross-domestic-spending-on-r-d.htm
    - zone411 3y ago
      Incorrect. You linked to the overall R&D spending data, not medical R&D spending. You can find the health R&D expenditure data here: https://www.oecd-ilibrary.org/sites/health_glance-2017-72-en/index.html?itemId=/content/component/health_glance-2017-72-en https://www.oecd-ilibrary.org/sites/health_glance-2017-72-en... It shows the U.S. spending 2.4x that of Europe on pharma expenditure as a % of GDP, and 3.2x that of Europe on government R&D health budgets as a % of GDP. Edit: somewhat newer data is here https://www.oecd-ilibrary.org/sites/fc8b43f4-en/index.html?itemId=/content/component/fc8b43f4-en https://www.oecd-ilibrary.org/sites/fc8b43f4-en/index.html?i... It shows that the R&D pharma spending gap has actually increased even further to 3.5x.
      - pjmorris 3y ago
        60 Billion a year (if I've read you charts correctly) is a drop in the bucket of US annual medical spending (4 Trillion/year.) You could pick the next most expensive country's plan, triple US R&D expenditures, and still spend way less. The GP's point about it not being outsized is correct.
        zone411 3y ago
        You're attempting to introduce a tangential point to cloud the issue, a typical Red Herring fallacy. Bowyakka was 100% incorrect. It is indisputable that U.S. medical R&D spending makes European spending appear insignificant.

lapcat 3y ago

> Why not actually suggest a solution rather than just throwing your hand up at the whole thing? A solution to which problem? The solution to the problem of private equity running the medical system is government-run health care, like in most other nations, who spend less on health care per person than the US but whose populations are nonetheless healthier. Or are you talking about the problem of the severe ideological divide? Or some other problem?

throw47474777j 3y ago
> but whose populations are nonetheless healthier. Population health is not caused by medicine. > Or are you talking about the problem of the severe ideological divide? Since you suggested that ideology is the “problem”, I would in fact be very interested to know if you have any ideas about how to solve it?
mfer 3y ago
> The solution to the problem of private equity running the medical system is government-run health care A super majority of the medical R&D is funded by the US system. The gov run systems pay for a minimum of it. Of the U.S. adopts a system like other gov run countries where does the medical R&D get financed?
- fallenasleep 3y ago
  US americans are already spending the money that funds that R&D. One possible solution that occurs to me just now (and is therefore very half baked) is that there must be a way they could continue to spend that money to fund research, while also having a functioning medical safety net
- bowyakka 3y ago
  Be a shame if someone looked up this on Google and found that it's not as outsized as some think https://data.oecd.org/rd/gross-domestic-spending-on-r-d.htm https://data.oecd.org/rd/gross-domestic-spending-on-r-d.htm
  - zone411 3y ago
    Incorrect. You linked to the overall R&D spending data, not medical R&D spending. You can find the health R&D expenditure data here: https://www.oecd-ilibrary.org/sites/health_glance-2017-72-en/index.html?itemId=/content/component/health_glance-2017-72-en https://www.oecd-ilibrary.org/sites/health_glance-2017-72-en... It shows the U.S. spending 2.4x that of Europe on pharma expenditure as a % of GDP, and 3.2x that of Europe on government R&D health budgets as a % of GDP. Edit: somewhat newer data is here https://www.oecd-ilibrary.org/sites/fc8b43f4-en/index.html?itemId=/content/component/fc8b43f4-en https://www.oecd-ilibrary.org/sites/fc8b43f4-en/index.html?i... It shows that the R&D pharma spending gap has actually increased even further to 3.5x.
    - pjmorris 3y ago
      60 Billion a year (if I've read you charts correctly) is a drop in the bucket of US annual medical spending (4 Trillion/year.) You could pick the next most expensive country's plan, triple US R&D expenditures, and still spend way less. The GP's point about it not being outsized is correct.
      - zone411 3y ago
        You're attempting to introduce a tangential point to cloud the issue, a typical Red Herring fallacy. Bowyakka was 100% incorrect. It is indisputable that U.S. medical R&D spending makes European spending appear insignificant.