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I agree that cats kill a lot of birds and something needs to be done about this. However, when you also have articles stating that migratory fish and insect po

I agree that cats kill a lot of birds and something needs to be done about this. However, when you also have articles stating that migratory fish and insect populations have declined by 75% over the last 50 years [1,2] (which clearly isn't caused by outdoor cats) it would seem to me there are larger forces at work. [1] https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/jul/27/migratory-river-fish-populations-plunge-76-in-past-50-years https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/jul/27/migrator... [2] https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/jul/25/the-insect-apocalypse-our-world-will-grind-to-a-halt-without-them https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/jul/25/the-inse...

b112 3y ago
I agree that cats kill a lot of birds and something needs to be done about this. Outside of birds, cats kill rodents. I live in rural Quebec, near farms, a massive nature preserve, and a national park larger than small US states. When I first moved here, I had no cat, and several other neighbours were new to the area. Old houses, not fresh builds, just changeover of owners... they too with no cats. The first year I was here, I became aware of the problem, and started to lay traps. And I caught 100+ mice, sometimes several per day for months, all inside my house. Once Spring arrived, I tried to find entrances, and did! I blocked them, but anyone that knows rodents, and owns wood houses, that won't help if you have an out of control, local colony, and once the winter comes, do they ever want in! I spent 3+ years with traps, sometimes reducing the population a bit, but each winter more than 50 mice. Then a neightbour got a siamese cat. I now catch a mouse or two a year. If you look at mouse breeding and brood numbers, and you live in a area with loads of food in the summer (near farms, nature), you need something like cats. It's not an option, it just isn't. There's a reason farmers have loads of semi-wild cats in their barns. And both the mice they catch, and the cats that catch them, are invasive. And with the hantavirus often touted as 50% lethal, you do NOT want the moral responsibility of trap and release, nor do you want mice in your house. At all. And yes, it is in the local population.
- arcticbull 3y ago
  If they only killed mice that would be a fun fact, but they also kill 20 billion small mammals a year, lol. The point was though that cats are killing all the birds, that they help a few people with a mouse problem is tangential at best to the topic at hand. I can accept that mice are a problem and cats are killing all the birds and small mammals at the same time. It’s kind of like saying DDT is fine actually because it helps a few farmers improve their crop yields. That it does, but it nukes the eagles from orbit too, and we have to look at this systemically. Once we accepted DDT as a problem we found alternative solutions. But there’s also localized solutions. A few spayed/neutered farm cats aren’t the end of the world.
  - giantg2 3y ago
    The outdoor neighborhood cats are the ones that are an issue. It sounds like promoting owl habitat would be a great targeted solution to mice problem without affecting small birds as much.
    - dunefox 3y ago
      Great Horned Owls apparently also kill cats, so that might be a perfect solution.
      - tetris11 3y ago
        I feel like we're sliding into snake territory now.
      - TeMPOraL 3y ago
        Owl also kill other birds, so...
        giantg2 3y ago
        They can, but that's less of an issue since other birds are not active at the same time.
        dunefox 3y ago
- mbg721 3y ago
  Some cats kill rodents. Mine (indoor cats) can't be bothered.
  - CyberDildonics 3y ago
    Did you think they were talking about literally every cat?
    - magicalist 3y ago
      The GP wrote their post as if the choice was feral cats everywhere or we all get the hantavirus, so I think it's a fair point.

b112 3y ago

I agree that cats kill a lot of birds and something needs to be done about this. Outside of birds, cats kill rodents. I live in rural Quebec, near farms, a massive nature preserve, and a national park larger than small US states. When I first moved here, I had no cat, and several other neighbours were new to the area. Old houses, not fresh builds, just changeover of owners... they too with no cats. The first year I was here, I became aware of the problem, and started to lay traps. And I caught 100+ mice, sometimes several per day for months, all inside my house. Once Spring arrived, I tried to find entrances, and did! I blocked them, but anyone that knows rodents, and owns wood houses, that won't help if you have an out of control, local colony, and once the winter comes, do they ever want in! I spent 3+ years with traps, sometimes reducing the population a bit, but each winter more than 50 mice. Then a neightbour got a siamese cat. I now catch a mouse or two a year. If you look at mouse breeding and brood numbers, and you live in a area with loads of food in the summer (near farms, nature), you need something like cats. It's not an option, it just isn't. There's a reason farmers have loads of semi-wild cats in their barns. And both the mice they catch, and the cats that catch them, are invasive. And with the hantavirus often touted as 50% lethal, you do NOT want the moral responsibility of trap and release, nor do you want mice in your house. At all. And yes, it is in the local population.

arcticbull 3y ago
If they only killed mice that would be a fun fact, but they also kill 20 billion small mammals a year, lol. The point was though that cats are killing all the birds, that they help a few people with a mouse problem is tangential at best to the topic at hand. I can accept that mice are a problem and cats are killing all the birds and small mammals at the same time. It’s kind of like saying DDT is fine actually because it helps a few farmers improve their crop yields. That it does, but it nukes the eagles from orbit too, and we have to look at this systemically. Once we accepted DDT as a problem we found alternative solutions. But there’s also localized solutions. A few spayed/neutered farm cats aren’t the end of the world.
- giantg2 3y ago
  The outdoor neighborhood cats are the ones that are an issue. It sounds like promoting owl habitat would be a great targeted solution to mice problem without affecting small birds as much.
  - dunefox 3y ago
    Great Horned Owls apparently also kill cats, so that might be a perfect solution.
    - tetris11 3y ago
      I feel like we're sliding into snake territory now.
    - TeMPOraL 3y ago
      Owl also kill other birds, so...
      - giantg2 3y ago
        They can, but that's less of an issue since other birds are not active at the same time.
      - dunefox 3y ago
mbg721 3y ago
Some cats kill rodents. Mine (indoor cats) can't be bothered.
- CyberDildonics 3y ago
  Did you think they were talking about literally every cat?
  - magicalist 3y ago
    The GP wrote their post as if the choice was feral cats everywhere or we all get the hantavirus, so I think it's a fair point.