7 ms·

I am always curious why one continues to believe the beliefs that lead to pain, suffering, and unhappiness. Even if correct is being miserable worth it?

guerrilla 3y ago
You're looking for pragmatism. Look up William James' Will to Believe.
PartiallyTyped 3y ago
Maybe the belief gives meaning which avoids confronting nothingness and meaninglessness.
downWidOutaFite 3y ago
It's morally repulsive to me to believe something just because it makes me feel better.
- z3c0 3y ago
  If it's morally repulsive to do otherwise, wouldn't this stance be for the sake of feeling better? I do agree with you; I just love the barber paradox as well.
  - downWidOutaFite 3y ago
    Good point, I'm basing my rejection on my repulsive feeling. I'm not familiar with philosophy but I'm sure there are philosophers that have built up arguments on why a life based on seeking truth and logic is worthwhile.
- sezycei 3y ago
  Why?
  - pmarreck 3y ago
    (I wrote this whole comment to you only to find out just now that you deleted the original comment. Sorry, I had to convey it somehow. LOL) I understand your confusion about using "entropy" outside a thermodynamics context, and you're absolutely correct to point out that the term "entropy" originated in the field of thermodynamics. However, the concept has been extended metaphorically in other fields to describe systems of complexity and order. It's in this latter, metaphorical sense that I'm using the term. Now, let's apply this to living systems. Organisms are highly ordered, containing complex structures at various scales from cells to organs. They can maintain and even increase their internal order, or decrease their "entropy," by consuming energy from their environment (like food). This is the "detour into lower entropy" I was talking about. While this seems to contradict the second law of thermodynamics, remember that organisms are not closed systems – they constantly exchange energy and matter with their environment. The increase in order within the organism is more than offset by the increase in disorder in the environment, resulting in an overall increase in entropy in the universe. This is completely consistent with the second law of thermodynamics. What I find fascinating is that life can maintain this high degree of organization for such a long period of time, despite the natural tendency towards disorder. This is not to say that the process is unexplained; science has a lot to say about how this happens, but rather that it's a remarkable (and seemingly unique) characteristic of life. Does this make more sense? I hope this clarifies the concept a bit.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
- pmarreck 3y ago
  I agree that feelings are not arguments and that beliefs should be justified by arguments, and not feelings. And yet, if you believe your spouse "is the one for you" but have no hard evidence to back it up, but you feel it with every fiber of your being, you will still make a gigantically life-impactful decision about this person that is COMPLETELY inarguable. :P
- AnimalMuppet 3y ago
  Those are good morals. But if you have that kind of moral impulse, are you really a nihilist?
- xyzelement 3y ago
  // It's morally repulsive to me to believe something just because it makes me feel better. If you have an equally valid choice to believe something positive or negative, why would you chose the later?
  - downWidOutaFite 3y ago
    Ideally you choose the one with the better logical argument. Feelings or consequences shouldn't factor in it.
    - flangola7 3y ago
      Why not? If it's all the same in the end, feelings and consequences might be the most important factors.
    - xyzelement 3y ago
      Like I said, the two choices are equally valid. Why would you assume that the shittier choice is more logical?
- HKH2 3y ago
  How you present yourself to others is probably a facade (Who can avoid it?) Is it morally repulsive to make others believe something to make yourself feel better?
Barrin92 3y ago
what does it matter if it's worth it? You can only genuinely believe what you acknowledge to be true, and your happiness has no bearing on what is true, there's no choice involved. The moment you attempt to abolish what you believe, being aware you do it only because it causes you pain, it doesn't even work, you're just sort of trying to desperately gaslight yourself. Reminds me of a short poem by Stephen Crane A man said to the universe: “Sir, I exist!” “However,” replied the universe, “The fact has not created in me A sense of obligation.”

guerrilla 3y ago

You're looking for pragmatism. Look up William James' Will to Believe.

PartiallyTyped 3y ago

Maybe the belief gives meaning which avoids confronting nothingness and meaninglessness.

downWidOutaFite 3y ago

It's morally repulsive to me to believe something just because it makes me feel better.

z3c0 3y ago
If it's morally repulsive to do otherwise, wouldn't this stance be for the sake of feeling better? I do agree with you; I just love the barber paradox as well.
- downWidOutaFite 3y ago
  Good point, I'm basing my rejection on my repulsive feeling. I'm not familiar with philosophy but I'm sure there are philosophers that have built up arguments on why a life based on seeking truth and logic is worthwhile.
sezycei 3y ago
Why?
- pmarreck 3y ago
  (I wrote this whole comment to you only to find out just now that you deleted the original comment. Sorry, I had to convey it somehow. LOL) I understand your confusion about using "entropy" outside a thermodynamics context, and you're absolutely correct to point out that the term "entropy" originated in the field of thermodynamics. However, the concept has been extended metaphorically in other fields to describe systems of complexity and order. It's in this latter, metaphorical sense that I'm using the term. Now, let's apply this to living systems. Organisms are highly ordered, containing complex structures at various scales from cells to organs. They can maintain and even increase their internal order, or decrease their "entropy," by consuming energy from their environment (like food). This is the "detour into lower entropy" I was talking about. While this seems to contradict the second law of thermodynamics, remember that organisms are not closed systems – they constantly exchange energy and matter with their environment. The increase in order within the organism is more than offset by the increase in disorder in the environment, resulting in an overall increase in entropy in the universe. This is completely consistent with the second law of thermodynamics. What I find fascinating is that life can maintain this high degree of organization for such a long period of time, despite the natural tendency towards disorder. This is not to say that the process is unexplained; science has a lot to say about how this happens, but rather that it's a remarkable (and seemingly unique) characteristic of life. Does this make more sense? I hope this clarifies the concept a bit.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
pmarreck 3y ago
I agree that feelings are not arguments and that beliefs should be justified by arguments, and not feelings. And yet, if you believe your spouse "is the one for you" but have no hard evidence to back it up, but you feel it with every fiber of your being, you will still make a gigantically life-impactful decision about this person that is COMPLETELY inarguable. :P
AnimalMuppet 3y ago
Those are good morals. But if you have that kind of moral impulse, are you really a nihilist?
xyzelement 3y ago
// It's morally repulsive to me to believe something just because it makes me feel better. If you have an equally valid choice to believe something positive or negative, why would you chose the later?
- downWidOutaFite 3y ago
  Ideally you choose the one with the better logical argument. Feelings or consequences shouldn't factor in it.
  - flangola7 3y ago
    Why not? If it's all the same in the end, feelings and consequences might be the most important factors.
  - xyzelement 3y ago
    Like I said, the two choices are equally valid. Why would you assume that the shittier choice is more logical?
HKH2 3y ago
How you present yourself to others is probably a facade (Who can avoid it?) Is it morally repulsive to make others believe something to make yourself feel better?

Barrin92 3y ago

what does it matter if it's worth it? You can only genuinely believe what you acknowledge to be true, and your happiness has no bearing on what is true, there's no choice involved. The moment you attempt to abolish what you believe, being aware you do it only because it causes you pain, it doesn't even work, you're just sort of trying to desperately gaslight yourself. Reminds me of a short poem by Stephen Crane A man said to the universe: “Sir, I exist!” “However,” replied the universe, “The fact has not created in me A sense of obligation.”