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The article touches a little on flight costs, but as someone who'd love to visit sometime and never has, it annoys me how flights to Guam work. Given its locati
by wayne 3y ago
The article touches a little on flight costs, but as someone who'd love to visit sometime and never has, it annoys me how flights to Guam work. Given its location most airlines don't fly direct from the mainland, so many flights to Guam are from Asia. But, you can't buy a ticket from the US with a layover in Japan from JAL or with a layover in Korea from Korean Air because any flight with a US origin to a US destination can only be sold by a US carrier. That eliminates all Asian competition and the US airlines get a monopoly even though they barely fly there and many of these flights are codeshares being operated by Asian airlines!
- throwawaaarrgh 3y agoDude. Just buy two separate round trip tickets.
- alistairSH 3y agoAnd pray neither is delayed, causing you to miss the next leg.
- Rebelgecko 3y agoJust space them out out or even take a couple days to visit Japan. Some airports even have programs where they'll take you on a field trip during your layover
- fnordpiglet 3y agoThese suggestions are cognitive load on the person making the trip. Most people break out in sweats thinking about organizing a trip to begin with, booking something with any complexity or risk is unbearable to them. My parents are both like this.
- throwawaaarrgh 3y agoI had a partner like that. Would freak out if I started driving without our destination already in the GPS. I think at least half of travel should be an adventure. Adventures are uncomfortable - but they make the best stories. Nobody has ever said, "Man, remember that time we went on that perfectly planned trip where nothing out of the ordinary happened? How exciting!"
- bluGill 3y agoSure I remember the adventure in Denver that one time, but we barely made it to the funeral the trip was about, and we missed a lot of time with family. If you just want to travel randomly, then no plan is fine. However we laid out plans can ensure you get to the must sees that are farther from home. Also many close to home things have wierd hours They are open so if you don't plan you won't see them that trip.
- fnordpiglet 3y agoWhen you have a kid and a stressful job and adventures shooting out your ears in day to day life, sometimes the idea of going to Guam and swimming in the beautiful waters and relaxing is what you want out of travel. Adventures don’t have to be exotic, I live adventures daily, and I spend a lot of my life uncomfortable. Many people do. The idea of the adhoc adventure trip i think resonated a lot more with me when I was single or newly married. Now, I love a trip to Bora Bora - my wife is very organized and loves travel planning, and we have perfectly executed trips where the excitement is snorkeling with sharks and mantarays rather than spending 48 hours laying on the floor in a foreign airport with a 9 year old.
- alistairSH 3y agoHeck, I enjoy a good adventure. But I want the adventure at my destination. There is nothing relaxing or exotic about missing connections and spending the night on a dirty concrete floor.
- squeaky-clean 3y agoIt's not impossible to do. It just sounds silly that the best way to take a 5 day trip in Guam is to take a 2 day trip in Japan and a 3 day trip in Guam.
- Rebelgecko 3y agoI wonder if there's a big list of places that take unintuitively long to get to? Friend of mine flew from California to South America a few years ago by way of Paris (which I think is a requirement for French Guiana?)
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- triceratops 3y agoCan't you buy 2 separate tickets?
- messe 3y agoThe issue then is if you have checked luggage.
- throwawaaarrgh 3y agoSo get your luggage? Deboarding, going through immigration, getting luggage, and going through customs takes no more than 45 minutes at Narita. Give yourself a 2 hour layover to be safe. Or pack like Rick Steves and just bring a backpack with the essentials.
- pipnonsense 3y agoI don't think they ever meant it's impossible to get there, just unnecessarily difficult (or expensive) due to a regulation that is bring unnecessary hassle (which is exactly what you are describing, but, somehow, using a tone that it's something smooth).
- reillyse 3y agoA backpack and a production crew :)
- seanmcdirmid 3y agoYou don’t need to go through immigration at Narita if you are just transferring planes at the airport.
- throwawaaarrgh 3y agoYou don't get a transfer if you've bought two separate flights. You have to pick up your luggage and put it on the next flight.
- 3y ago
- whalesalad 3y agoUnited goes direct from Honolulu
- coredog64 3y agoYou can also take the scenic route from HI to RMI to FSM. I can’t think of any reason to hang out in Majuro, but two of the FSM stops are great sightseeing destinations. On Pohnpei you can visit Nan Madol. If you’re into diving, there’s a huge number of Japanese warships sunk near Chuuk.
- interrupt21h 3y agoThis. Used for American Samoa...just make damn sure to make your connection. If it's anything like American Samoa, there are only a few flights a week. The smart move is to arrive a day early in Hawaii and spend the night
- r24y 3y agoFlight costs are a pain, and the flight durations are nothing to sneeze at either. I live out in Guam (my wife is stationed here with the Navy) and the two most common ways to get back to the mainland are via Tokyo (Narita) and Honolulu. I would definitely encourage visiting if you have the means! I find there are two types of people here: those who feel limited by the island and its infrastructure (no Target, no Starbucks, etc.) and those who enjoy its incredible outdoor environment. Some of the best snorkeling and scuba diving in the world is right here, and as for hiking: we've been hiking very frequently for the two years since we arrived and haven't gotten bored yet. Depending on where you go on the island, the terrain and plant life looks very different.
- CobaltFire 3y agoMy family and I loved our time there (Navy as well). We almost retired there, but my son's health condition(s) precludes that. Space-A is how we flew back during our tour there, and if you know the tricks it work great. If you don't it's a nightmare.
- bigfryo 3y agoMy father was stationed in Guam for a couple of years during the Korean War but he was in the Navy. And then when I was getting mustered out of the Navy 40 years ago I landed on Guam briefly on a flight out of Kobe Japan, on my way to Hawaii
- Aerbil313 3y ago> those who feel limited by the island and its infrastructure (no Target, no Starbucks, etc.) I hate those people. I live in a city of 1.5 million (there's everything here), and it's a constant background radiation talking point for a significant number of my highschool friends: how unfortunate they are that they don't live in the nearby city of 15 million. IME this constant moping has everything to do with the amount of social media one consumes daily.
- nequo 3y agoGuam’s population is 169 thousand, about 10% of the city where you live. It is an island 3,800 miles from Hawaii. I doubt that this situation is comparable to yours.
- TulliusCicero 3y agoI wish we'd get rid of this rule entirely. Just seems like naked protectionism, no? If a non-US carrier abides by local regulations, I don't see an issue with letting them run domestic flights.
- josephcsible 3y agoYou make it sound like that's a US-specific rule, but there's an equivalent rule in basically every country (with some exceptions, the main one being between EU member states).
- silverpepsi 3y agoTwo wrongs don't make a right?
- maxcan 3y agoNo, but they often add up to a stable Nash equilibrium.
- fransje26 3y agoIt's better than that. Those are IATA rules, and IATA has been functioning as a cartel more or less since it has been founded..
- realityking 3y agoThey‘re actually defined by ICAO, a UN agency with states as members. And the actual restrictions are of course a matter of domestic legislation stemming out countries sovereignty over their airspace. These restrictions largely don‘t exist among European Union member states and between Australia and New Zealand. IATAs cartel like behavior was due to them regulating airline prices and services. This started at a time when governments where still regulating domestic prices thinking that competition on price or service would lead to cutting corners on safety.
- zoky 3y ago
- jlmorton 3y ago> because any flight with a US origin to a US destination can only be sold by a US carrier. That's not exactly true. It just requires the USA and the other country to have negotiated a Fifth Freedom agreement. There are lots of foreign-owned airlines flying from the US with layovers and stopovers in other countries. For instance, I recently flew JFK->FRA->SIN on Singapore Airlines. And United even operates their Island Hopper route, Honolulu-Majuro-Kwajalein Atoll-Kosrae-Pohnpei-Truk-Guam, among many others.
- fnordpiglet 3y agoI think you misunderstood. They said US->US destination has to be operated by a us carrier. JFK->FRA->SIN doesn’t have a US designation and United is a US carrier.
- jlmorton 3y agoNevertheless, notice the other example I gave is a United flight originating in Honolulu, Hawaii, transiting Micronesia, and ending in Guam. It’s the same rule.
- lotsofpulp 3y agoThat is an American airline flight that starts and ends in the US, therefore complying with the rule.
- jlmorton 3y agoThe rule is simply that foreign-owned airlines can’t fly point-to-point routes between US destinations. I’m in Chicago, and I can book a Korean Air, non-codeshare ORD-ICN-GUM right now. You can find it on Kayak.
- deaddodo 3y agoIt's not a componentized ticket from the airline, but singular tickets that Kayak has joined together. Or, it's simply ignoring the regulation, and will be denied by the airline once you attempt to book it. As the other poster mentioned, try grabbing a componetized ticket from the airline and they will not book it.
- smcin 3y agoYes, under current airline treaties it's actually more complicated and takes longer to fly mainland US to Guam, than mainland US to the Philippines. Even though Guam is only a short 1500ml from the Philippines, and: Philippine Airlines flights from west-coast US (SF, LA) refuel in Guam, since a 2006 "technical stop" agreement [0] (not allowed to pick up passengers on Guam, but can refuel and pick up supplies); at least during the winter headwinds, Nov-Mar [1]. Passengers can't even get out of the plane, you get to sit on the tarmac and watch the fuel tankers out the window for 45min in the predawn. I wanted to at least get out and see the inside of the terminal but absolutely not. ("Guam: the ultimate skiplagged challenge") So you won't see this arrangement show up on any ticket engines, and they're not allowed say "Philippine Airlines flies to Guam". Are there any good articles on how current airline treaties affect routes and pricing in the Pacific? [0]: "Guam replaces Honolulu as stop for PAL flights" https://www.philstar.com/headlines/2006/01/06/315333/guam-replaces-honolulu-stop-pal-flights https://www.philstar.com/headlines/2006/01/06/315333/guam-re... [1]: "The one-hour technical stops are required during certain times of the year, particularly during the winter months of November to March, when headwinds are strong enough to affect aircraft flying westward across the Pacific." (to avoid exceeding MTOW) [2]: discussed on https://www.pprune.org/south-asia-far-east/374507-pal-technical-stop-guam.html https://www.pprune.org/south-asia-far-east/374507-pal-techni... I'm sure Gordon Lightfoot (RIP) could have sung about treaties...
- throwaway742 3y agoWhat if you had a medical emergency while on the tarmac in Guam?
- smcin 3y agoI'm sure they'd treat you locally (I wonder if air-rage cases get dropped there unscheduled, too, although I don't think so). It's not like the border is hermetically sealed; just disembarking on those particular flights is not available to passengers or skiplaggers. (To be clear, that's because it's a non-US (Philippine Airlines) flight on a technical stopover in a US territory (Guam)). The limitation is purely legal. The airline treaties distort pricing and competition, otherwise it should be possible to do a 24/48h stopover in Guam, Taipei etc., and even lower your overall ticket price if you're flexible about dates. If not, a creative itinerary with multiple stopovers like Manila-Guam-Honolulu-Anchorage-Seattle could be interesting.
- mushufasa 3y agoThere used to be direct flights on Continental before they were acquired/merged by United
- hiidrew 3y agoSounds similar to the article's mention of the Jones Act and the issues it causes.