7 ms·

Thanks for enlightening me re: censorship of posts. The first version of my post included a paragraph raising the issue of censorship (since I could not find m

by joccam 15y ago

Thanks for enlightening me re: censorship of posts. The first version of my post included a paragraph raising the issue of censorship (since I could not find my comment with a page search). So I thought the -1 was hiding my comment Then I found the "More" button, and discovered my comment... at the very bottom. So I deleted that paragraph, so I wouldn't create a red herring of my own... and to be fair to HN. However, with your observation, I suspect my comment is censored, but I just can't tell. I don't care enough at this point to verify it. (My next comment will explain why.)

kaolinite 15y ago
I grew suspicious after my bug report comment was ignored in favour of one with less content, so I logged out and refreshed the page - there was no comment. A friend also viewed the page and again, no comment. Another thing that HN does is slow down your page loads if you have negative karma. Pages can often take between 10-30 seconds to load.
- joccam 15y ago
  Yeah, this YCombinator/HN site is socially degenerate and (I gather) fundamentally broken. When I posted my question, I was at -2. Then after reading your post, I commented on a technical topic (audio and hearing) which I know a lot about. I still got negative feedback. My viewpoint was too informed for this site, and one or a bunch of high-powered HN toughs started slamming my post(s). If, as you suggest YC/HN locks accounts due to negative points, these guys were locking me out of my account. Net effect: censorship. The more I posted, the more I got slammed (I didn't know at the time). So the more resident bullies pick arguments, the more they can pick on you. It's a natural downward spiral. Net effect: heavy, inexplicable (to victim) censorship. Bullies get jollies. Bottom line: victims are censored from even supporting their points, bullies get the pulpit free and clear (i.e., they "win", and the readers lose), and bullies get more points to bully (I assume). That's degenerate and broken for a news site. Just the opposite of what's needed in an open, honest communication channel. But it's worse than that. -=- At first I thought I was locked out for 30 seconds or so as you suggested, and I was able to keep my draft posts open for posting later. But YC/HN lockout proceeded for somewhere between 28 and 36 hours, or well over a DAY. So I lost all three of my posts. Of course, even though YC/HN knew I was in the middle of posts ("You're submitting too fast. Please slow down. Thanks."), YC/HN did not save the posts. They destroyed them. By going BACK I was able to recover them, but only as long as my browser (or machine) did not bork and require restarting. So the effect is chilling. YC/HN goes out of its way to destroy posts. The bullies (I assume) abuse their privileges, but YC/HN enables the nasty behavior and pernicious results (heavily delayed or destroyed posts; incomplete and imbalanced conversations). The posts would be useless now 1. because the thread is old, and 2. because the conversation is too twisted and controlled by the bullies. So YC/HN promotes more than censorship, banning, and destruction of posts. They promote a culture of bullying and twisted information (at least on bully topics). And I don't see any levers on my account to undo the damage or counter the bullying (modulo candid post like this one). So, the YC/HN policy promotes ignorance (obstinate attackers), bullying (nasty attackers), and disinformation (the ignorant feed off imbalanced information). Is that YC/HN intention? No idea, but the site is broken. That I DO know. So here's what makes the situation even worse: I am largely _guessing_ about what happened, because I really don't know why I was kicked off for over a day. In other words, the effects are not causal related or explained. You have to reverse engineer the mystery man (YC/HN) behind the bullying. And, I assume, the perps of the attack succeed by cutting you out of the conversation --- anonymously. Well, presumably, except for the one dude I replied to who, I believe, instigated the attacks. Finally (for this post anyway), two more things. 1. I didn't just get cut off from posting as the "You're submitting too fast." message suggested. I do not know how complicated YC/HN disruption algorithm is or what it pertains to (or even if it was just some personal attack by a power-user), but whatever the case, YC/HN kicked me off from even READING http://news.ycombinator.com http://news.ycombinator.com. AT ALL. MY INTERNET ADDRESS was completely cut-off. No matter if logged out from YC/HN. No matter if in different browser. No matter if on different computer. NO MATTER WHAT. YC/HN kicked me off even just reading from anywhere, any who, any computer at my internet address. Yikes! So: READING is VERBOTEN. Your IP Address is VERBOTEN. Thank you, Gestapo YC/HN! What a nasty, heavy-handed, inexplicable, ridiculous tactic. Just Insane. So not only are the YC/HN site attack measures largely modal (dangerously and inscrutably hidden in cause-and-effect), but the effects are absurdly broad and heavy-handed. With a system like this, it's no wonder bullies lurk here. 2. The most humorous thing about this whole experience is that I'm a newbie on the site (or, perhaps, _was_; now I'm a veteran victim and quite "experienced"!-), was just coming up to speed (thanks to your post) when I got ambushed again, kicked off, and... (wait for it :-) when I returned after doing NOTHING AT ALL for 36 HOURS, my YC/HN "karma" went DOWN from -2 to -19 (or thereabouts; it's -19 now at moment of this post). My reaction: it's a badge of honor to have negative karma on YC/HN. Repeat: YC/HN karma went from -2 to -19 without me doing anything... while kicked out of posting... while kicked off of reading... while my entire IP Address (all browsers, all computers) were prevented from even accessing the site (blank content returned). Absurd. In other words, the system and the bullies are so ridiculous here, that it's a TOTAL JOKE. So I'm not expecting great things from YC/HN. After recently putting it on my daily URL's, I have now taken it off (no surprise). BULLY EFFECT successful. But I will check back when bored, to see what the YC/HN bully system is doing to my account. If it floats up, so be it. Maybe the system will "apologize." If it goes down, then I just take it as ludicrous, misguided gamification ≡ bully system at its best. -=- kaolinite (and a few other friendly posters), thank you for the heads up on the YC/HN situation. Your comments were prescient to what happened to my account. And they were both a breath of fresh air and very enlightening in an otherwise nasty, brutish situation. Cheers. (Wait for it... bullies ACTIVATE! :-)
- joccam 15y ago
  FUNNY I was trying to figure out what the "avg:" was in profiles. Then I compared a couple, and one bully (bullying someone else this time) had modest avg: while the victim had very high average, but bully has very high "karma" --- which seemed counter-intuitive. Low value posts but high karma? So I wasn't sure what "avg:" was if not post points. But I believe it is post points. So, for high "karma," bully must post a LOT, but his posts are not well received (even though high "karma" would suggest otherwise). So (guessing) "karma" seems more about quantity (than quality) in bully cases. Then, since I have negative "karma", I got curious about my own "avg:" since I didn't realize I had one. So I checked. Apparently when your "karma" is negative, you have no "avg." :-) YC/HN just leaves the value blank. So I am holding steady at -19 YC/HN "karma" and have no "avg: [this space intentionally left blank by YC/HN]" :-)

by joccam 15y ago

kaolinite 15y ago

I grew suspicious after my bug report comment was ignored in favour of one with less content, so I logged out and refreshed the page - there was no comment. A friend also viewed the page and again, no comment. Another thing that HN does is slow down your page loads if you have negative karma. Pages can often take between 10-30 seconds to load.

joccam 15y ago
Yeah, this YCombinator/HN site is socially degenerate and (I gather) fundamentally broken. When I posted my question, I was at -2. Then after reading your post, I commented on a technical topic (audio and hearing) which I know a lot about. I still got negative feedback. My viewpoint was too informed for this site, and one or a bunch of high-powered HN toughs started slamming my post(s). If, as you suggest YC/HN locks accounts due to negative points, these guys were locking me out of my account. Net effect: censorship. The more I posted, the more I got slammed (I didn't know at the time). So the more resident bullies pick arguments, the more they can pick on you. It's a natural downward spiral. Net effect: heavy, inexplicable (to victim) censorship. Bullies get jollies. Bottom line: victims are censored from even supporting their points, bullies get the pulpit free and clear (i.e., they "win", and the readers lose), and bullies get more points to bully (I assume). That's degenerate and broken for a news site. Just the opposite of what's needed in an open, honest communication channel. But it's worse than that. -=- At first I thought I was locked out for 30 seconds or so as you suggested, and I was able to keep my draft posts open for posting later. But YC/HN lockout proceeded for somewhere between 28 and 36 hours, or well over a DAY. So I lost all three of my posts. Of course, even though YC/HN knew I was in the middle of posts ("You're submitting too fast. Please slow down. Thanks."), YC/HN did not save the posts. They destroyed them. By going BACK I was able to recover them, but only as long as my browser (or machine) did not bork and require restarting. So the effect is chilling. YC/HN goes out of its way to destroy posts. The bullies (I assume) abuse their privileges, but YC/HN enables the nasty behavior and pernicious results (heavily delayed or destroyed posts; incomplete and imbalanced conversations). The posts would be useless now 1. because the thread is old, and 2. because the conversation is too twisted and controlled by the bullies. So YC/HN promotes more than censorship, banning, and destruction of posts. They promote a culture of bullying and twisted information (at least on bully topics). And I don't see any levers on my account to undo the damage or counter the bullying (modulo candid post like this one). So, the YC/HN policy promotes ignorance (obstinate attackers), bullying (nasty attackers), and disinformation (the ignorant feed off imbalanced information). Is that YC/HN intention? No idea, but the site is broken. That I DO know. So here's what makes the situation even worse: I am largely _guessing_ about what happened, because I really don't know why I was kicked off for over a day. In other words, the effects are not causal related or explained. You have to reverse engineer the mystery man (YC/HN) behind the bullying. And, I assume, the perps of the attack succeed by cutting you out of the conversation --- anonymously. Well, presumably, except for the one dude I replied to who, I believe, instigated the attacks. Finally (for this post anyway), two more things. 1. I didn't just get cut off from posting as the "You're submitting too fast." message suggested. I do not know how complicated YC/HN disruption algorithm is or what it pertains to (or even if it was just some personal attack by a power-user), but whatever the case, YC/HN kicked me off from even READING http://news.ycombinator.com http://news.ycombinator.com. AT ALL. MY INTERNET ADDRESS was completely cut-off. No matter if logged out from YC/HN. No matter if in different browser. No matter if on different computer. NO MATTER WHAT. YC/HN kicked me off even just reading from anywhere, any who, any computer at my internet address. Yikes! So: READING is VERBOTEN. Your IP Address is VERBOTEN. Thank you, Gestapo YC/HN! What a nasty, heavy-handed, inexplicable, ridiculous tactic. Just Insane. So not only are the YC/HN site attack measures largely modal (dangerously and inscrutably hidden in cause-and-effect), but the effects are absurdly broad and heavy-handed. With a system like this, it's no wonder bullies lurk here. 2. The most humorous thing about this whole experience is that I'm a newbie on the site (or, perhaps, _was_; now I'm a veteran victim and quite "experienced"!-), was just coming up to speed (thanks to your post) when I got ambushed again, kicked off, and... (wait for it :-) when I returned after doing NOTHING AT ALL for 36 HOURS, my YC/HN "karma" went DOWN from -2 to -19 (or thereabouts; it's -19 now at moment of this post). My reaction: it's a badge of honor to have negative karma on YC/HN. Repeat: YC/HN karma went from -2 to -19 without me doing anything... while kicked out of posting... while kicked off of reading... while my entire IP Address (all browsers, all computers) were prevented from even accessing the site (blank content returned). Absurd. In other words, the system and the bullies are so ridiculous here, that it's a TOTAL JOKE. So I'm not expecting great things from YC/HN. After recently putting it on my daily URL's, I have now taken it off (no surprise). BULLY EFFECT successful. But I will check back when bored, to see what the YC/HN bully system is doing to my account. If it floats up, so be it. Maybe the system will "apologize." If it goes down, then I just take it as ludicrous, misguided gamification ≡ bully system at its best. -=- kaolinite (and a few other friendly posters), thank you for the heads up on the YC/HN situation. Your comments were prescient to what happened to my account. And they were both a breath of fresh air and very enlightening in an otherwise nasty, brutish situation. Cheers. (Wait for it... bullies ACTIVATE! :-)
joccam 15y ago
FUNNY I was trying to figure out what the "avg:" was in profiles. Then I compared a couple, and one bully (bullying someone else this time) had modest avg: while the victim had very high average, but bully has very high "karma" --- which seemed counter-intuitive. Low value posts but high karma? So I wasn't sure what "avg:" was if not post points. But I believe it is post points. So, for high "karma," bully must post a LOT, but his posts are not well received (even though high "karma" would suggest otherwise). So (guessing) "karma" seems more about quantity (than quality) in bully cases. Then, since I have negative "karma", I got curious about my own "avg:" since I didn't realize I had one. So I checked. Apparently when your "karma" is negative, you have no "avg." :-) YC/HN just leaves the value blank. So I am holding steady at -19 YC/HN "karma" and have no "avg: [this space intentionally left blank by YC/HN]" :-)