6 ms·

How long until apple blocks this? They are famous for protecting their walled garden and hostility towards cross platform development tools.

by floomk 3y ago

JamesUtah07 3y ago
Probably after launch. It’sa good way for developers to build and test apps for VP so they won’t go after it for now.
- vaxman 3y ago
  It's 2023, there is probably a clause in the Developer Agreement that prevents streaming the materials provided under it to computers that aren't enrolled in the Developer Program. What you are supposing is that they might choose not to enforce that until their own headset is shipping in volume. If anything, they are building a case against this person while at the same time analyzing their suitability to park their ass in a chair in Cupertino...then it will go to an exec who will decide the person's fate. https://tenor.com/vKjA.gif https://tenor.com/vKjA.gif
  - smoldesu 3y ago
    > And the Copyright Act doesn’t give creators, like Apple, a monopoly over transformative inventions that enable research into their product. Cf. Patton, 769 F.3d at 1276 (“The goal of copyright is to stimulate the creation of new works, not to furnish copyright holders with control over all markets.”). - Corellium Inc vs Apple Inc, D.C. Docket No. 9:19-cv-81160-RS: https://aboutblaw.com/7PK https://aboutblaw.com/7PK If Corellium can livestream a virtualized version of iOS on non-Apple hardware, I'd wager Joe Shmoe can livestream an official dev envrionment to their VR client.
    - vaxman 3y ago
      No, those are not affirmative defenses. If you accept the Developer Agreement and receive protected materials under it, you cannot redistribute, publish or stream it because of case law, sorry. I know it’s confusing because of all the little unethical assholes who hack apart every beta release and post about it on blogs run by morbidly obese grifter-enthusiasts, but it is actually quite simple —Apple can and does pick and choose who to enforce its agreements on, just as you may.
andsoitis 3y ago
> hostility towards cross platform development tools LLVM and clang are both cross platform
- smoldesu 3y ago
  LLVM was Open Source and supported GNU from the get-go, it didn't make sense to remove support after Apple bought up the core contributors. Clang is indeed an Apple original, but developing it without support for multiple platforms would be paramount to removing features supported in the underlying compiler. If either LLVM or Clang tried removing multiplatform support or totally relicensed itself, it would divide the community and make life hard for Apple. They could probably make WebKit a fully proprietary browser engine by rewriting the KHTML stuff, but what would they gain by removing features from an Open Source product they developed?
- floomk 3y ago
  Let me know when I can use those to develop an iOS app from Windows or Linux
  - riscy 3y ago
    If you write it in Swift or Objective-C, you're using LLVM and clang.
    - afavour 3y ago
      But you’re still not building it on Windows or Linux.
      - dymk 3y ago
        [flagged]
  - cjensen 3y ago
    iOS is a supported target in Visual Studio Professional on Windows.
riscy 3y ago
You can code in Swift using VSCode on any platform: https://www.swift.org/blog/vscode-extension/ https://www.swift.org/blog/vscode-extension/
- ra 3y ago
  It's not about the language, it's about access to APIs. Apple's MO is to keep some APIs for itself, making them unavailable to third-parties.
  - scarface_74 3y ago
    You mean like every single operating system that has ever existed? Even if you do conceivably have access to “private APIs” that are not documented, you still shouldn’t use them.
    - cycomanic 3y ago
      What do you mean "every" ? BSD, Linux?
      - scarface_74 3y ago
        And guess what happens when you depend on non public APIs that implement the specifications on any of those operating systems when you either upgrade your OS or you try to move to another Unix variant.
tw600040 3y ago
//They are famous for protecting their walled garden and hostility towards cross platform development tools. Trying to deconstruct this to understand better. 2 possibilities. 1. Supporting cross platform development tools is actually in Apple's interest/business and they are being stupid not to support them. But so far it doesn't seem like they are losing anything by not supporting it going by their financials. 2. Supporting cross platform development tools is not in their interest - in which case they are doing the right thing by doing what's good for their business. So, where is the disconnect?
- tsimionescu 3y ago
  You are thinking in terms of what is good for their business, when the GP was discussing in terms of what is good for everyone else. The fact that Apple has been successful in keeping a good reputation despite nickle-and-diming all developers working with their platform is only a badge of honor in the marketing world.
proxiful-wash 3y ago
Good. Screw OP for being a JERK ROFL. Honestly this is corporate sabotage. Might be hard for OP to find a gig in the US after this. Good.
- saagarjha 3y ago
  Can't tell if this is sarcasm or not.
saagarjha 3y ago
This requires a Mac to work.

How long until apple blocks this? They are famous for protecting their walled garden and hostility towards cross platform development tools.

by floomk 3y ago

How long until apple blocks this? They are famous for protecting their walled garden and hostility towards cross platform development tools.

JamesUtah07 3y ago

Probably after launch. It’sa good way for developers to build and test apps for VP so they won’t go after it for now.

vaxman 3y ago
It's 2023, there is probably a clause in the Developer Agreement that prevents streaming the materials provided under it to computers that aren't enrolled in the Developer Program. What you are supposing is that they might choose not to enforce that until their own headset is shipping in volume. If anything, they are building a case against this person while at the same time analyzing their suitability to park their ass in a chair in Cupertino...then it will go to an exec who will decide the person's fate. https://tenor.com/vKjA.gif https://tenor.com/vKjA.gif
- smoldesu 3y ago
  > And the Copyright Act doesn’t give creators, like Apple, a monopoly over transformative inventions that enable research into their product. Cf. Patton, 769 F.3d at 1276 (“The goal of copyright is to stimulate the creation of new works, not to furnish copyright holders with control over all markets.”). - Corellium Inc vs Apple Inc, D.C. Docket No. 9:19-cv-81160-RS: https://aboutblaw.com/7PK https://aboutblaw.com/7PK If Corellium can livestream a virtualized version of iOS on non-Apple hardware, I'd wager Joe Shmoe can livestream an official dev envrionment to their VR client.
  - vaxman 3y ago
    No, those are not affirmative defenses. If you accept the Developer Agreement and receive protected materials under it, you cannot redistribute, publish or stream it because of case law, sorry. I know it’s confusing because of all the little unethical assholes who hack apart every beta release and post about it on blogs run by morbidly obese grifter-enthusiasts, but it is actually quite simple —Apple can and does pick and choose who to enforce its agreements on, just as you may.

andsoitis 3y ago

> hostility towards cross platform development tools LLVM and clang are both cross platform

smoldesu 3y ago
LLVM was Open Source and supported GNU from the get-go, it didn't make sense to remove support after Apple bought up the core contributors. Clang is indeed an Apple original, but developing it without support for multiple platforms would be paramount to removing features supported in the underlying compiler. If either LLVM or Clang tried removing multiplatform support or totally relicensed itself, it would divide the community and make life hard for Apple. They could probably make WebKit a fully proprietary browser engine by rewriting the KHTML stuff, but what would they gain by removing features from an Open Source product they developed?
floomk 3y ago
Let me know when I can use those to develop an iOS app from Windows or Linux
- riscy 3y ago
  If you write it in Swift or Objective-C, you're using LLVM and clang.
  - afavour 3y ago
    But you’re still not building it on Windows or Linux.
    - dymk 3y ago
      [flagged]
- cjensen 3y ago
  iOS is a supported target in Visual Studio Professional on Windows.

riscy 3y ago

You can code in Swift using VSCode on any platform: https://www.swift.org/blog/vscode-extension/ https://www.swift.org/blog/vscode-extension/

ra 3y ago
It's not about the language, it's about access to APIs. Apple's MO is to keep some APIs for itself, making them unavailable to third-parties.
- scarface_74 3y ago
  You mean like every single operating system that has ever existed? Even if you do conceivably have access to “private APIs” that are not documented, you still shouldn’t use them.
  - cycomanic 3y ago
    What do you mean "every" ? BSD, Linux?
    - scarface_74 3y ago
      And guess what happens when you depend on non public APIs that implement the specifications on any of those operating systems when you either upgrade your OS or you try to move to another Unix variant.

tw600040 3y ago

//They are famous for protecting their walled garden and hostility towards cross platform development tools. Trying to deconstruct this to understand better. 2 possibilities. 1. Supporting cross platform development tools is actually in Apple's interest/business and they are being stupid not to support them. But so far it doesn't seem like they are losing anything by not supporting it going by their financials. 2. Supporting cross platform development tools is not in their interest - in which case they are doing the right thing by doing what's good for their business. So, where is the disconnect?

tsimionescu 3y ago
You are thinking in terms of what is good for their business, when the GP was discussing in terms of what is good for everyone else. The fact that Apple has been successful in keeping a good reputation despite nickle-and-diming all developers working with their platform is only a badge of honor in the marketing world.

proxiful-wash 3y ago

Good. Screw OP for being a JERK ROFL. Honestly this is corporate sabotage. Might be hard for OP to find a gig in the US after this. Good.

saagarjha 3y ago
Can't tell if this is sarcasm or not.

saagarjha 3y ago

This requires a Mac to work.