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Total marketshare was estimated at 1.5% for Linux gaming. The survey comes direct from Valve's Steam Survey. Potential bias aside the Steamdeck alone is estima

Total marketshare was estimated at 1.5% for Linux gaming. The survey comes direct from Valve's Steam Survey. Potential bias aside the Steamdeck alone is estimated at 40%. Arch and Ubuntu ~8% each. Is there any other trustworthy metric of all "Linux Gamers" out there? I'm curious how much using the Steam Client effects or tilts results towards systems that easily run Steam. Self selection at it's finest. My logic side knows that with only a 1.5% rounding error to the total "PC" gaming isn't market significant. I should be happy with the trend. I own a Steamdeck. But it's like how my friends use their Nintendo systems. As an extension of my PC windows I was already personal project time with SteamOS and SteamLink. Point is, I wouldn't consider myself in the 1.5% even though I game wherever.

ed25519FUUU 3y ago
If you include mobile games on ARM64 the the number of Linux gamers is significantly higher than x86.
- moffkalast 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - karamanolev 3y ago
    Android is a very thick layer/shell around the actual Linux kernel, maybe some or a lot of patches, but still Linux. How much compiled Linux code does it run? Quite a lot. macOS, AFAIK, runs NO Linux (the kernel) source code.
    - reassembled 3y ago
      macOS is not based on the Linux kernel, it's based on BSD.
  - Toutouxc 3y ago
    Android uses Linux the kernel. macOS doesn’t use Linux the kernel.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
- tmtvl 3y ago
  I don't think that's very relevant when we're talking about AMD CPU usage, although it does mean that Phoronix may very well be technically wrong when talking about "Linux" gaming statistics. That said it's quite clear they mean GNU/Linux desktop gaming using x86_64-based systems.
- to11mtm 3y ago
  I'll be pedantic and cynical; - Android isn't quite Linux - A good number if not the majority of 'mobile games' are gachas/cow-clickers. At least to me, it's a bit like lumping old folks who play at churches into a 'Gamblers that visit casinos once a week' metric.
  - plq 3y ago
    > Android isn't quite Linux If we're being pedantic, let me be clear that Android is Linux. It just doesn't use the traditional userland, mostly implemented by GNU. So it's Linux but not GNU/Linux.
    - smegsicle 3y ago
      if we're being correct and practical, let me be clear that 'linux' is gnu/linux, so android uses linux kernel, but is not 'linux' also, 'gaming' (union of pc and console) and 'mobile gaming' are significantly different demographics
      - jokethrowaway 3y ago
        Linux is NOT GNU/Linux Gnu = coreutils + POSIX + gcc + others; Linux = the kernel
        throwaway2990 3y ago
        [flagged]
        deafpolygon 3y ago
        Accurate, but in general terms... Linux desktop = GNU/Linux.
      - Shorel 3y ago
        No sir. You can't win both sides of the argument whenever it's more convenient for you. If you are going to write GNU/Linux, be consistent with its usage. Linux is the kernel. My OS is Ubuntu, not just Linux. Android is also Linux.
- post-it 3y ago
  While true, often people talk about the proportion of Linux gamers in the context of growing desktop Linux market share, "the year of the Linux desktop," etc. Since Android and desktop Linux programs are largely incompatible, mobile games on ARM64 don't matter in this context.
  - mcv 3y ago
    Compatibility is much less of an issue these days. My son apparently plays Android games on Windows in an emulator. I'm sure the same thing is possible on Linux. I plan to finally switch to gaming on Linux, because Linux support for games is much better than it was in the past, and even games that don't officially work in Linux, in practice often still do due to Steam Linux support. Even if you didn't buy the game on Steam, I've been told. So I hope to soon join that 1.5%, and with the direction Windows seems to be going, I expect a lot more people will do the same.
- dumdumchan 3y ago
  What you guys are referring to as Linux, is in fact, GNU/Linux, or as I've recently taken to calling it, GNU plus Linux. Linux is not an operating system unto itself, but rather another free component of a fully functioning GNU system made useful by the GNU corelibs, shell utilities and vital system components comprising a full OS as defined by POSIX. Many computer users run a modified version of the GNU system every day, without realizing it. Through a peculiar turn of events, the version of GNU which is widely used today is often called "Linux", and many of its users are not aware that it is basically the GNU system, developed by the GNU Project. There really is a Linux, and these people are using it, but it is just a part of the system they use. Linux is the kernel: the program in the system that allocates the machine's resources to the other programs that you run. The kernel is an essential part of an operating system, but useless by itself; it can only function in the context of a complete operating system. Linux is normally used in combination with the GNU operating system: the whole system is basically GNU with Linux added, or GNU/Linux. All the so-called "Linux" distributions are really distributions of GNU/Linux.
  - adgjlsfhk1 3y ago
    Your copypasta is out of date. https://www.gnu.org/gnu/incorrect-quotation.en.html https://www.gnu.org/gnu/incorrect-quotation.en.html. The updated version is: A quotation circulates on the Internet, attributed to me, but it wasn't written by me. Here's the text that is circulating. Most of it was copied from statements I have made, but the part italicized here is not from me. It makes points that are mistaken or confused... < original copypasta> The main error is that Linux is not strictly speaking part of the GNU system—whose kernel is GNU Hurd. The version with Linux, we call “GNU/Linux.” It is OK to call it “GNU” when you want to be really short, but it is better to call it “GNU/Linux” so as to give Torvalds some credit. We don't use the term “corelibs,” and I am not sure what that would mean, but GNU is much more than the specific packages we developed for it. I set out in 1983 to develop an operating system, calling it GNU, and that job required developing whichever important packages we could not find elsewhere.
beebeepka 3y ago
Steam survey doesn't represent reality, imho. When was the last time you were asked to participate? On how many machines, assuming you have more than one. I am sure Valve collects way more than they let on. Linux gaming is at a good place. However, I really wish AMD would release their CPU and GPU control software for Linux. Running newer AMF cards is painful because the stock BIOS settings are anything but sane. Gotta burn power to win benchmarks...
- duped 3y ago
  I get asked about every six months.
- striking 3y ago
  The field of statistics is kind of based on the idea that you can take a sample and it might represent a population. Maybe you have a more specific complaint about the Steam Survey methodology in mind that I'm not picking up on?
  - Shorel 3y ago
    He probably wants to imply there are PC gamers who don't use steam at all. That's probably true. Now the question is, how many PC gamers use Steam and how many don't. And this is one big important piece of data I don't have.
  - beebeepka 3y ago
    > might represent a population So, you do agree that it's not hard data? Not sure what made you think I am "complaining" about the survey. Just pointing out it does not represent the full picture. It's supposedly random and voluntary.
    - striking 3y ago
      When considering whether or not the survey reflects reality, I invite you to look at other survey methodologies and the error bars that are possible with as many as, say, 1500 randomly sampled survey participants. The voluntary nature might skew the data a little bit, but not so much that it completely invalidates the trends shown. Sure, not the whole picture, but probably quite close.
pengaru 3y ago
I can get behind the "Android isn't Linux" argument when it comes to claims of how numerous Linux users there are via smartphones. The userspace is quite distinct from anything GNU-like. But the Steamdeck uses very much a full-blown Arch-derived Linux distro. So I'm not sure it makes sense to categorize their users as anything other than "Linux gamers". The fact that AMD landed on the Steamdeck vs. NVIDIA or Intel is noteworthy. Their continued investment in mainline Linux support has clearly paid off.
- brucethemoose2 3y ago
  Its not (just) about software support. The Deck uses a special, low power (specifically targeting ~9W), graphics heavy AMD SoC. It was actually the first of a new laptop CPU line that AMD seemingly canceled: https://videocardz.com/newz/amd-ryzen-2021-2022-roadmap-partially-leaks https://videocardz.com/newz/amd-ryzen-2021-2022-roadmap-part... AMD coincidentally had the right CPU at the right time. Intel and Nvidia had nothing comparable for Valve to use. In fact, the successor to the Deck chip is kinda an existential problem, as AMD's CPU-heavy laptop line (including the Z1) is less suitable.
  - xigency 3y ago
    > AMD coincidentally had the right CPU at the right time. They have been there pretty consistently, for example they’ve been the SoC provider for a few generations of Xbox and PlayStation consoles, now.
    - Uvix 3y ago
      Those have been desktop parts, not laptop parts.
      - brucethemoose2 3y ago
        They are neither, they are both fully custom. One thing thats under-appreciated is the immense design/tape out cost (9 figures these days, maybe more?) of a fully custom chip. That is a huge flat expense, hence one does not simply make a custom design unless the volume (or margin) is absolutely enormous. AMD/Nvidia/Intel can't just casually crank out an APU for Valve, as one might think. I'm not even sure MS/Sony can justify a die shrink this generation... Heck, maybe the PS6 will run commodity PC hardware.
DropInIn 3y ago
The question is how many people are also just switching because they're being forced to go to 11 despite not wanting to, yet again, and so Linux seems like a stable reliable option for most of them? Most don't do significant PC gaming, right? Just browsing the web and sharing files, right? Hmmm.... Many will just get the millenial in the family to install Ubuntu or mint and be done with it.. At least that's what has consistently happened in my family, with people rarely if ever going back to windows (without any real tech support, it "just keeps working").
fennecfoxy 3y ago
Linux is an endless source of audiovisual issues and friends that use it join Discord and find their audio/mic is super low bitrate/crackly or simply doesn't work at all, consistently between the various distros that they move to every couple months, flavour of the week, etc. I haven't gone back to trying linux as desktop since pop_os bricked my Dell XPS (even bios recovery doesn't work, it's completely bricked by some UEFI extension or something that pop rammed onto it). Before that just getting multiple monitors to work consistently/each in their own specific resolution was an absolute nightmare. The SD is really what Linux should be targeting: "it just works" but if you want, you can crack it open and change what you want. Linux is mostly still a pain in the butt to get up & running, plug monitors & other devices in and just have the damn thing work. Let alone all of the _choices_: distro, window manager, audio manager, etc, etc. Nobody _cares_. That's why it's not been year of the Linux desktop yet; you install Windows or you buy a Macbook and you get Windows or MacOS. Try to decide which window manager to use based on the internet's option; you'll find forums & forums like HN of people bitching over which WM is superior etc.

ed25519FUUU 3y ago

If you include mobile games on ARM64 the the number of Linux gamers is significantly higher than x86.

moffkalast 3y ago
[flagged]
- karamanolev 3y ago
  Android is a very thick layer/shell around the actual Linux kernel, maybe some or a lot of patches, but still Linux. How much compiled Linux code does it run? Quite a lot. macOS, AFAIK, runs NO Linux (the kernel) source code.
  - reassembled 3y ago
    macOS is not based on the Linux kernel, it's based on BSD.
- Toutouxc 3y ago
  Android uses Linux the kernel. macOS doesn’t use Linux the kernel.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
tmtvl 3y ago
I don't think that's very relevant when we're talking about AMD CPU usage, although it does mean that Phoronix may very well be technically wrong when talking about "Linux" gaming statistics. That said it's quite clear they mean GNU/Linux desktop gaming using x86_64-based systems.
to11mtm 3y ago
I'll be pedantic and cynical; - Android isn't quite Linux - A good number if not the majority of 'mobile games' are gachas/cow-clickers. At least to me, it's a bit like lumping old folks who play at churches into a 'Gamblers that visit casinos once a week' metric.
- plq 3y ago
  > Android isn't quite Linux If we're being pedantic, let me be clear that Android is Linux. It just doesn't use the traditional userland, mostly implemented by GNU. So it's Linux but not GNU/Linux.
  - smegsicle 3y ago
    if we're being correct and practical, let me be clear that 'linux' is gnu/linux, so android uses linux kernel, but is not 'linux' also, 'gaming' (union of pc and console) and 'mobile gaming' are significantly different demographics
    - jokethrowaway 3y ago
      Linux is NOT GNU/Linux Gnu = coreutils + POSIX + gcc + others; Linux = the kernel
      - throwaway2990 3y ago
        [flagged]
      - deafpolygon 3y ago
        Accurate, but in general terms... Linux desktop = GNU/Linux.
    - Shorel 3y ago
      No sir. You can't win both sides of the argument whenever it's more convenient for you. If you are going to write GNU/Linux, be consistent with its usage. Linux is the kernel. My OS is Ubuntu, not just Linux. Android is also Linux.
post-it 3y ago
While true, often people talk about the proportion of Linux gamers in the context of growing desktop Linux market share, "the year of the Linux desktop," etc. Since Android and desktop Linux programs are largely incompatible, mobile games on ARM64 don't matter in this context.
- mcv 3y ago
  Compatibility is much less of an issue these days. My son apparently plays Android games on Windows in an emulator. I'm sure the same thing is possible on Linux. I plan to finally switch to gaming on Linux, because Linux support for games is much better than it was in the past, and even games that don't officially work in Linux, in practice often still do due to Steam Linux support. Even if you didn't buy the game on Steam, I've been told. So I hope to soon join that 1.5%, and with the direction Windows seems to be going, I expect a lot more people will do the same.
dumdumchan 3y ago
What you guys are referring to as Linux, is in fact, GNU/Linux, or as I've recently taken to calling it, GNU plus Linux. Linux is not an operating system unto itself, but rather another free component of a fully functioning GNU system made useful by the GNU corelibs, shell utilities and vital system components comprising a full OS as defined by POSIX. Many computer users run a modified version of the GNU system every day, without realizing it. Through a peculiar turn of events, the version of GNU which is widely used today is often called "Linux", and many of its users are not aware that it is basically the GNU system, developed by the GNU Project. There really is a Linux, and these people are using it, but it is just a part of the system they use. Linux is the kernel: the program in the system that allocates the machine's resources to the other programs that you run. The kernel is an essential part of an operating system, but useless by itself; it can only function in the context of a complete operating system. Linux is normally used in combination with the GNU operating system: the whole system is basically GNU with Linux added, or GNU/Linux. All the so-called "Linux" distributions are really distributions of GNU/Linux.
- adgjlsfhk1 3y ago
  Your copypasta is out of date. https://www.gnu.org/gnu/incorrect-quotation.en.html https://www.gnu.org/gnu/incorrect-quotation.en.html. The updated version is: A quotation circulates on the Internet, attributed to me, but it wasn't written by me. Here's the text that is circulating. Most of it was copied from statements I have made, but the part italicized here is not from me. It makes points that are mistaken or confused... < original copypasta> The main error is that Linux is not strictly speaking part of the GNU system—whose kernel is GNU Hurd. The version with Linux, we call “GNU/Linux.” It is OK to call it “GNU” when you want to be really short, but it is better to call it “GNU/Linux” so as to give Torvalds some credit. We don't use the term “corelibs,” and I am not sure what that would mean, but GNU is much more than the specific packages we developed for it. I set out in 1983 to develop an operating system, calling it GNU, and that job required developing whichever important packages we could not find elsewhere.

beebeepka 3y ago

Steam survey doesn't represent reality, imho. When was the last time you were asked to participate? On how many machines, assuming you have more than one. I am sure Valve collects way more than they let on. Linux gaming is at a good place. However, I really wish AMD would release their CPU and GPU control software for Linux. Running newer AMF cards is painful because the stock BIOS settings are anything but sane. Gotta burn power to win benchmarks...

duped 3y ago
I get asked about every six months.
striking 3y ago
The field of statistics is kind of based on the idea that you can take a sample and it might represent a population. Maybe you have a more specific complaint about the Steam Survey methodology in mind that I'm not picking up on?
- Shorel 3y ago
  He probably wants to imply there are PC gamers who don't use steam at all. That's probably true. Now the question is, how many PC gamers use Steam and how many don't. And this is one big important piece of data I don't have.
- beebeepka 3y ago
  > might represent a population So, you do agree that it's not hard data? Not sure what made you think I am "complaining" about the survey. Just pointing out it does not represent the full picture. It's supposedly random and voluntary.
  - striking 3y ago
    When considering whether or not the survey reflects reality, I invite you to look at other survey methodologies and the error bars that are possible with as many as, say, 1500 randomly sampled survey participants. The voluntary nature might skew the data a little bit, but not so much that it completely invalidates the trends shown. Sure, not the whole picture, but probably quite close.

pengaru 3y ago

I can get behind the "Android isn't Linux" argument when it comes to claims of how numerous Linux users there are via smartphones. The userspace is quite distinct from anything GNU-like. But the Steamdeck uses very much a full-blown Arch-derived Linux distro. So I'm not sure it makes sense to categorize their users as anything other than "Linux gamers". The fact that AMD landed on the Steamdeck vs. NVIDIA or Intel is noteworthy. Their continued investment in mainline Linux support has clearly paid off.

brucethemoose2 3y ago
Its not (just) about software support. The Deck uses a special, low power (specifically targeting ~9W), graphics heavy AMD SoC. It was actually the first of a new laptop CPU line that AMD seemingly canceled: https://videocardz.com/newz/amd-ryzen-2021-2022-roadmap-partially-leaks https://videocardz.com/newz/amd-ryzen-2021-2022-roadmap-part... AMD coincidentally had the right CPU at the right time. Intel and Nvidia had nothing comparable for Valve to use. In fact, the successor to the Deck chip is kinda an existential problem, as AMD's CPU-heavy laptop line (including the Z1) is less suitable.
- xigency 3y ago
  > AMD coincidentally had the right CPU at the right time. They have been there pretty consistently, for example they’ve been the SoC provider for a few generations of Xbox and PlayStation consoles, now.
  - Uvix 3y ago
    Those have been desktop parts, not laptop parts.
    - brucethemoose2 3y ago
      They are neither, they are both fully custom. One thing thats under-appreciated is the immense design/tape out cost (9 figures these days, maybe more?) of a fully custom chip. That is a huge flat expense, hence one does not simply make a custom design unless the volume (or margin) is absolutely enormous. AMD/Nvidia/Intel can't just casually crank out an APU for Valve, as one might think. I'm not even sure MS/Sony can justify a die shrink this generation... Heck, maybe the PS6 will run commodity PC hardware.

DropInIn 3y ago

The question is how many people are also just switching because they're being forced to go to 11 despite not wanting to, yet again, and so Linux seems like a stable reliable option for most of them? Most don't do significant PC gaming, right? Just browsing the web and sharing files, right? Hmmm.... Many will just get the millenial in the family to install Ubuntu or mint and be done with it.. At least that's what has consistently happened in my family, with people rarely if ever going back to windows (without any real tech support, it "just keeps working").

fennecfoxy 3y ago

Linux is an endless source of audiovisual issues and friends that use it join Discord and find their audio/mic is super low bitrate/crackly or simply doesn't work at all, consistently between the various distros that they move to every couple months, flavour of the week, etc. I haven't gone back to trying linux as desktop since pop_os bricked my Dell XPS (even bios recovery doesn't work, it's completely bricked by some UEFI extension or something that pop rammed onto it). Before that just getting multiple monitors to work consistently/each in their own specific resolution was an absolute nightmare. The SD is really what Linux should be targeting: "it just works" but if you want, you can crack it open and change what you want. Linux is mostly still a pain in the butt to get up & running, plug monitors & other devices in and just have the damn thing work. Let alone all of the _choices_: distro, window manager, audio manager, etc, etc. Nobody _cares_. That's why it's not been year of the Linux desktop yet; you install Windows or you buy a Macbook and you get Windows or MacOS. Try to decide which window manager to use based on the internet's option; you'll find forums & forums like HN of people bitching over which WM is superior etc.