7 ms·

You mean, the valuable support they are increasingly shifting to Colombia, Philippines and India?

by CAP_NET_ADMIN 3y ago

otterley 3y ago
[flagged]
- CAP_NET_ADMIN 3y ago
  I'm actually from one of the countries they are moving jobs to, it's very US-centric to see racism whenever someone uses any geographic location that's not the "rich West". Red Hat had some pretty sizeable layoffs recently and a bulk of their recruiting efforts are in the countries with cheaper labour.
- isityouyesitsme 3y ago
  Thinly-veiled racism? You are conflating geopolitics and economics that could concern someone who could end up being affected by such a trend (which the poster isn't, as they said later) with racism. Is someone in a given country supposed to be HAPPY that a company founded in their country is intentionally putting support engineers within their founding country out of work, while simultaneously making support a worse experience for users? Have you ever been in the situation of being on midnight call to the other side of the world while speaking with someone with whom you're having a mutually difficult time communicating? It sucks. Moving support into localities for better servicing the customer is fine. This isn't the trend. Fuck RH and anyone else who does this.
  - otterley 3y ago
    > Moving support into localities for better servicing the customer is fine. This isn't the trend. You and others in this thread are concluding that the choices provided are bad ones based solely on the locations of those choices, despite there being no good reason why these people cannot provide the same level of service that could be provided elsewhere (communication issues are curable by hiring the right people, and are not an incurable problem related to the country the speaker is in). This is precisely why I called it thinly-veiled racism. I stand by my original statement for this reason, and it was improperly flagged.
    - isityouyesitsme 3y ago
      I didn't flag it. I'm not improperly judging anything. I have lived this for too long. "No good reason" is a fantasy. There is "no good reason" other than the real world standing in the way, which is an economic motivation you keep neglecting, not a racial one. You are either a racist, unintelligent, or else ignorant. You do not write as though you're unintelligent. I do not personally assume that people are racist because I disagree with them (though your writing makes me challenge that). I can therefore only conclude you're ignorant of what real people do at real jobs.
      - otterley 3y ago
        You're not wrong that economics motivate the choice of where to hire for a customer support function. Customer service is a cost center, so naturally companies will choose to hire where labor is cheap but the job can still be done. If it's not being done well, that's a problem to point out. But that's not what happened in this conversation. To reiterate, here is how this thread went, in context: >> I think you are underestimating the value of providing support to commercial users. > You mean, the valuable support they are increasingly shifting to Colombia, Philippines and India? The bottom reply added no value to the conversation; it made no substantive claim. Since it lacked any substance, the reply merely insinuated that people from these countries cannot provide support at a level that people from other countries (such as the USA) can, and without any explanation as to why. This is the modus operandi of racists who want to choose not to be overt - leaving it to the reader to implicitly understand the unstated. Some call it a "dog whistle." Had the speaker said "well, they're moving these functions to Colombia, Philippines and India, which are providing worse service because of <some non racist reason>," the conversation would have gone rather differently. > You are either a racist, unintelligent, or else ignorant. You do not write as though you're unintelligent. I do not personally assume that people are racist because I disagree with them (though your writing makes me challenge that). I can therefore only conclude you're ignorant of what real people do at real jobs. I'm not going to dignify this with a response. Take this garbage to Twitter where it belongs.
        isityouyesitsme 3y ago
- booleandilemma 3y ago
  And you think these companies are outsourcing to these countries because they just love Colombians, Filipinos, and Indians, right?
pamhalpert 3y ago
Who cares? Every country has skillful, qualified information technology individuals. Additionally, a quick google search shows it looks like RH does offer US only support if a customer is willing to pay. https://www.redhat.com/en/resources/security-strict-data-handling-storage-requirements-datasheet https://www.redhat.com/en/resources/security-strict-data-han...

You mean, the valuable support they are increasingly shifting to Colombia, Philippines and India?

otterley 3y ago

[flagged]

CAP_NET_ADMIN 3y ago
I'm actually from one of the countries they are moving jobs to, it's very US-centric to see racism whenever someone uses any geographic location that's not the "rich West". Red Hat had some pretty sizeable layoffs recently and a bulk of their recruiting efforts are in the countries with cheaper labour.
isityouyesitsme 3y ago
Thinly-veiled racism? You are conflating geopolitics and economics that could concern someone who could end up being affected by such a trend (which the poster isn't, as they said later) with racism. Is someone in a given country supposed to be HAPPY that a company founded in their country is intentionally putting support engineers within their founding country out of work, while simultaneously making support a worse experience for users? Have you ever been in the situation of being on midnight call to the other side of the world while speaking with someone with whom you're having a mutually difficult time communicating? It sucks. Moving support into localities for better servicing the customer is fine. This isn't the trend. Fuck RH and anyone else who does this.
- otterley 3y ago
  > Moving support into localities for better servicing the customer is fine. This isn't the trend. You and others in this thread are concluding that the choices provided are bad ones based solely on the locations of those choices, despite there being no good reason why these people cannot provide the same level of service that could be provided elsewhere (communication issues are curable by hiring the right people, and are not an incurable problem related to the country the speaker is in). This is precisely why I called it thinly-veiled racism. I stand by my original statement for this reason, and it was improperly flagged.
  - isityouyesitsme 3y ago
    I didn't flag it. I'm not improperly judging anything. I have lived this for too long. "No good reason" is a fantasy. There is "no good reason" other than the real world standing in the way, which is an economic motivation you keep neglecting, not a racial one. You are either a racist, unintelligent, or else ignorant. You do not write as though you're unintelligent. I do not personally assume that people are racist because I disagree with them (though your writing makes me challenge that). I can therefore only conclude you're ignorant of what real people do at real jobs.
    - otterley 3y ago
      You're not wrong that economics motivate the choice of where to hire for a customer support function. Customer service is a cost center, so naturally companies will choose to hire where labor is cheap but the job can still be done. If it's not being done well, that's a problem to point out. But that's not what happened in this conversation. To reiterate, here is how this thread went, in context: >> I think you are underestimating the value of providing support to commercial users. > You mean, the valuable support they are increasingly shifting to Colombia, Philippines and India? The bottom reply added no value to the conversation; it made no substantive claim. Since it lacked any substance, the reply merely insinuated that people from these countries cannot provide support at a level that people from other countries (such as the USA) can, and without any explanation as to why. This is the modus operandi of racists who want to choose not to be overt - leaving it to the reader to implicitly understand the unstated. Some call it a "dog whistle." Had the speaker said "well, they're moving these functions to Colombia, Philippines and India, which are providing worse service because of <some non racist reason>," the conversation would have gone rather differently. > You are either a racist, unintelligent, or else ignorant. You do not write as though you're unintelligent. I do not personally assume that people are racist because I disagree with them (though your writing makes me challenge that). I can therefore only conclude you're ignorant of what real people do at real jobs. I'm not going to dignify this with a response. Take this garbage to Twitter where it belongs.
      - isityouyesitsme 3y ago
booleandilemma 3y ago
And you think these companies are outsourcing to these countries because they just love Colombians, Filipinos, and Indians, right?

pamhalpert 3y ago

Who cares? Every country has skillful, qualified information technology individuals. Additionally, a quick google search shows it looks like RH does offer US only support if a customer is willing to pay. https://www.redhat.com/en/resources/security-strict-data-handling-storage-requirements-datasheet https://www.redhat.com/en/resources/security-strict-data-han...