6 ms·

> more resilient, both to natural phenomena, equipment failures and sabotage. I think you're understating the risks from geomagnetic storms. In comparison to s

> more resilient, both to natural phenomena, equipment failures and sabotage. I think you're understating the risks from geomagnetic storms. In comparison to satellites, fiber optic cables seem like they'd be relatively unaffected even if the equipment attached to them needs replacement.

zamfi 3y ago
Perhaps the ocean is protective to some degree, but beyond very short lengths undersea cables have powered repeaters that draw considerable current, and which would plausibly be destroyed if the base stations are too.
- adrian_b 3y ago
  I would not say "very short lengths", because undersea cables without powered repeaters (only with optical amplifiers) are possible until a few hundred kilometer. But you are right that transoceanic cables need powered repeaters.
CAP_NET_ADMIN 3y ago
Currently, you can cut internet connections to most countries with a small deep water sub. China, for example, was busy building one that can be used at 10k+ depth and has arms.
- giobox 3y ago
  Its widely assumed China, Russia and the US have "kinetic kill" abilities on satellites in space too, its just capabilities are not as widely known. Projects Like the US/Boeing X-37 space drone etc, whose purposes still haven't really been revealed: > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_X-37 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_X-37 Russia has already demonstrated its satellite destroying tech: > https://www.cnbc.com/video/2021/11/16/russia-blows-up-satellite-in-asat-weapon-test-threatens-space-station-with-debris.html https://www.cnbc.com/video/2021/11/16/russia-blows-up-satell...
  - CAP_NET_ADMIN 3y ago
    "Kinetic kill" is arguably easier to detect and harder to deny. I haven't said that we should only focus on sea cables, I said that we should do both so that the overall reliability and resiliency increases.
  - wcoenen 3y ago
    Also, India. List of anti-satellite tests: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/368223169/figure/tbl1/AS:11431281117593250@1675470275795/List-of-anti-satellite-tests-conducted-by-different-nations.png https://www.researchgate.net/publication/368223169/figure/tb...
  - kelnos 3y ago
    Can those be deployed "anonymously" though? Publicly destroying another nation's satellite would be an act of war. Quietly and secretly cutting an undersea cable, while being able to plausibly deflect blame, is a bit safer.
  - elzbardico 3y ago
    The problem is that it is fairly difficult to do it cleanly without risking precipitating Kessler syndrome. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kessler_syndrome https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kessler_syndrome It is basically automatic MAD (Mutually Assured Destruction) out there in space.
piyh 3y ago
Are solar storms an issue for LEO sats?
Beached 3y ago
yeah, but having both means if one is a victim, the other keeps chugging along. a bad anchor drag take out cables? or a sub cut the wire? lasers go pew pew. weather take out lasers? cables go zoom. and in normal operating conditions, both go and increase bandwidth and speed

zamfi 3y ago

Perhaps the ocean is protective to some degree, but beyond very short lengths undersea cables have powered repeaters that draw considerable current, and which would plausibly be destroyed if the base stations are too.

adrian_b 3y ago
I would not say "very short lengths", because undersea cables without powered repeaters (only with optical amplifiers) are possible until a few hundred kilometer. But you are right that transoceanic cables need powered repeaters.

CAP_NET_ADMIN 3y ago

Currently, you can cut internet connections to most countries with a small deep water sub. China, for example, was busy building one that can be used at 10k+ depth and has arms.

giobox 3y ago
Its widely assumed China, Russia and the US have "kinetic kill" abilities on satellites in space too, its just capabilities are not as widely known. Projects Like the US/Boeing X-37 space drone etc, whose purposes still haven't really been revealed: > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_X-37 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_X-37 Russia has already demonstrated its satellite destroying tech: > https://www.cnbc.com/video/2021/11/16/russia-blows-up-satellite-in-asat-weapon-test-threatens-space-station-with-debris.html https://www.cnbc.com/video/2021/11/16/russia-blows-up-satell...
- CAP_NET_ADMIN 3y ago
  "Kinetic kill" is arguably easier to detect and harder to deny. I haven't said that we should only focus on sea cables, I said that we should do both so that the overall reliability and resiliency increases.
- wcoenen 3y ago
  Also, India. List of anti-satellite tests: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/368223169/figure/tbl1/AS:11431281117593250@1675470275795/List-of-anti-satellite-tests-conducted-by-different-nations.png https://www.researchgate.net/publication/368223169/figure/tb...
- kelnos 3y ago
  Can those be deployed "anonymously" though? Publicly destroying another nation's satellite would be an act of war. Quietly and secretly cutting an undersea cable, while being able to plausibly deflect blame, is a bit safer.
- elzbardico 3y ago
  The problem is that it is fairly difficult to do it cleanly without risking precipitating Kessler syndrome. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kessler_syndrome https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kessler_syndrome It is basically automatic MAD (Mutually Assured Destruction) out there in space.

piyh 3y ago

Are solar storms an issue for LEO sats?

Beached 3y ago

yeah, but having both means if one is a victim, the other keeps chugging along. a bad anchor drag take out cables? or a sub cut the wire? lasers go pew pew. weather take out lasers? cables go zoom. and in normal operating conditions, both go and increase bandwidth and speed