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On (2), I think there's some general policy discussions we should have around government spending rescuing people willing and knowingly doing obviously dangerou

On (2), I think there's some general policy discussions we should have around government spending rescuing people willing and knowingly doing obviously dangerous/stupid things. Americans fucking around in North Korea or active war zones is another example that comes to mind. I think that would be a better use of time than spinning up a 100-person government licensing program to regulate the 1000 people playing with submarines.

EdwardDiego 3y ago
Yeah, the costs of SAR when people made very dumb decisions is an ongoing debate. In my country at least, the consensus is that we don't want people to _not_ call for help when they need it because they're afraid of being invoiced. I used to be a ranger, so was involved in SAR to a small extent, usually triggering them, manning the radio, and hitting up other hikers who might have seen something for info, but a lot of our rangers were also volunteers with LandSAR, as they had the techical skills and the local knowledge. And as far as I'm aware, there was only one serious attempt to invoice someone for a search. An American serviceman with Operation Deep Freeze had left his intentions for a multi-day hike with the rangers, and when he didn't make contact within 24 hours of his expected date out, a search was initiated. The personal details he'd left weren't great, we knew that an American called Mike was following the Casey Stream - Poulter River - Lake Minchin - Townsend Pass - Taramakau River route, and we knew he hadn't signed out. No details of his car (if any), or where it was parked, no local contact details, nothing much but an overdue Yankee Mike who was headed into an area where the route he was following wasn't quite here-be-dragons, but you'd certainly stumble into dragons if you made navigation mistakes or bad choices in general. Volunter searchers on foot spent about 6 weeks scouring his route, and possible wrong turns he could've taken for, which involves very challenging terrain, they brought in both kinds of SAR dogs (the kind that are trained to find people, and the kind that are trained to find bodies) and, significantly more expensively, there was a lot of helicopter flight hours expended trying to find him. The rescue choppers had the IR cameras, ideal for finding warm bodies in the cold, and night vision great at enhancing any light emitted on the ground. Plus the massive spotlight and the winch and the trained paramedics etc. (Apparently a small torch is very damn visible at night with the NVG, just don't be under trees, it doesn't help). After those six weeks, the search was called off. A few months later he was eventually located by our Police who'd been following up every angle to identify him. He was safe and sound at home, in Utah. He'd returned to the US shortly after his hike. I'm guessing his deployment (or the season for flights to the Antarctic) had been at an end, so he went on one last hike and just forgot to sign out. The Police took it personal, and desperately wanted to invoice him for the rescue, even suing him in a US court if need be, but the diplomats nixed it as the US is very protective of its citizens, especially when they're in the service.

EdwardDiego 3y ago

Yeah, the costs of SAR when people made very dumb decisions is an ongoing debate. In my country at least, the consensus is that we don't want people to _not_ call for help when they need it because they're afraid of being invoiced. I used to be a ranger, so was involved in SAR to a small extent, usually triggering them, manning the radio, and hitting up other hikers who might have seen something for info, but a lot of our rangers were also volunteers with LandSAR, as they had the techical skills and the local knowledge. And as far as I'm aware, there was only one serious attempt to invoice someone for a search. An American serviceman with Operation Deep Freeze had left his intentions for a multi-day hike with the rangers, and when he didn't make contact within 24 hours of his expected date out, a search was initiated. The personal details he'd left weren't great, we knew that an American called Mike was following the Casey Stream - Poulter River - Lake Minchin - Townsend Pass - Taramakau River route, and we knew he hadn't signed out. No details of his car (if any), or where it was parked, no local contact details, nothing much but an overdue Yankee Mike who was headed into an area where the route he was following wasn't quite here-be-dragons, but you'd certainly stumble into dragons if you made navigation mistakes or bad choices in general. Volunter searchers on foot spent about 6 weeks scouring his route, and possible wrong turns he could've taken for, which involves very challenging terrain, they brought in both kinds of SAR dogs (the kind that are trained to find people, and the kind that are trained to find bodies) and, significantly more expensively, there was a lot of helicopter flight hours expended trying to find him. The rescue choppers had the IR cameras, ideal for finding warm bodies in the cold, and night vision great at enhancing any light emitted on the ground. Plus the massive spotlight and the winch and the trained paramedics etc. (Apparently a small torch is very damn visible at night with the NVG, just don't be under trees, it doesn't help). After those six weeks, the search was called off. A few months later he was eventually located by our Police who'd been following up every angle to identify him. He was safe and sound at home, in Utah. He'd returned to the US shortly after his hike. I'm guessing his deployment (or the season for flights to the Antarctic) had been at an end, so he went on one last hike and just forgot to sign out. The Police took it personal, and desperately wanted to invoice him for the rescue, even suing him in a US court if need be, but the diplomats nixed it as the US is very protective of its citizens, especially when they're in the service.