6 ms·

They may be more diverse in terms of race and sexuality, but have very little diversity of opinion and worldview.

spondylosaurus 3y ago
Little diversity of opinion and worldview how? (Should DEI teams be hiring people who are against diversity, equity, and inclusion?)
- a_subsystem 3y ago
  They would benefit from being open to discussion, which they are generally not. There are an absolute plethora of examples. See Peter Boghossian's street interviews/surveys for example.
- LawTalkingGuy 3y ago
  > Should DEI teams be hiring people who are against [...] Yes, otherwise you're saying hiring is just a political test.
  - spondylosaurus 3y ago
    No it's not, lol. Logistically speaking, it makes zero sense to hire an anti-diversity advocate for a DEI role. Companies only have DEI teams because they want to promote diversity, equity, and inclusion; they wouldn't hire someone who's actively going to detract from that effort. It'd be like hiring a reckless loudmouth who loves to make people look bad as your head of PR. Literally the opposite of what you need them to accomplish. (I also find it suspect that equity or inclusion are "political," but that's another matter.)
    - telotortium 3y ago
      Generally, the people in support of DEI are fond of the expression "the personal is political" or even "everything is political", so why wouldn't DEI be political? Given that it involves the organization of society and is controversial, DEI seems like the prototypical example of something political. It would be clearer for everyone if DEI openly accepted their role as political commissars.
      - spondylosaurus 3y ago
        I have literally never once heard language like that from DEI professionals; in every context I've encountered them, they've basically been an emissary of HR and had a "be nice but don't rock the boat" mentality, for better or for worse. And I'm speaking as someone who falls into several ""diverse"" hiring categories. As much as I appreciate the philosophy of DEI work, I personally find most of it pretty toothless. There have even been multiple instances of myself and other rank-and-file coworkers trying to have discussions about bigotry at large (not even in the workplace itself), only to be shut down by those very same DEI coordinators under the guise of "let's use kind words instead of unkind words," because it's not good HR-speak to call a spade a spade. Like, these are people employeed by huge corporate entities, not radical freedom fighters. A lot of it is just image work to make sure your company doesn't do or say shit that makes you look bad.
        JenrHywy 3y ago
        I had someone from our diversity team say, in a meeting of 100+, that the problem that the team are trying to combat is "whiteness". This coming from a white woman who quite openly said that she'd only recently started identifying as diverse because one of her parents spoke a non-English language.
        spondylosaurus 3y ago
        Oh boy... sounds like a piece of work :P I know the type you're referring to—people punchdrunk on their own performative "activism" who love to make everything about themselves—and they're pretty cringey, but at least in my experience they're far from the norm on corporate DEI teams. Honestly super ballsy of her to pull the Diverse White Lady move like that... I'd be shocked if no one else on the team gave her a talking-to, unless (1) she's the boss or (2) everyone else on the diversity team is white. (Which does happen, and isn't great, but also is pretty funny in juxtaposition with the claims you'll hear about DEI teams being radical Marxist plots or whatever. Half the time these teams are just a bunch of HR managers named Linda who get the letters in LGBT mixed up.)
        3y ago
    - LawTalkingGuy 3y ago
      > I also find it suspect that equity or inclusion are "political," The way you say "suspect" seems like an attempt to sway opinion, which seems like a tacit admission that that the terms are political. For instance, inclusion of who? What groups do you divide the world's people into such that you need one of every group for proper representation? > Logistically speaking, it makes zero sense to hire an anti-diversity advocate for a DEI role. I think most people can do jobs they don't agree with. An engineer can design a bridge that they didn't vote for, an administrator can follow rules they wouldn't have chosen, etc. > Companies only have DEI teams because they want to promote diversity, equity, and inclusion; How should you do that though? Is any diversity of thought allowed? For instance, is anyone allowed to think that affirmative action is ultimately harmful and focus on the diversity and inclusion over "equity", and/or argue for what they feel are more helpful methods? Is DEI defined as a specific set of practices or a general goal of bettering society?

Little diversity of opinion and worldview how? (Should DEI teams be hiring people who are against diversity, equity, and inclusion?)

a_subsystem 3y ago
They would benefit from being open to discussion, which they are generally not. There are an absolute plethora of examples. See Peter Boghossian's street interviews/surveys for example.
LawTalkingGuy 3y ago
> Should DEI teams be hiring people who are against [...] Yes, otherwise you're saying hiring is just a political test.
- spondylosaurus 3y ago
  No it's not, lol. Logistically speaking, it makes zero sense to hire an anti-diversity advocate for a DEI role. Companies only have DEI teams because they want to promote diversity, equity, and inclusion; they wouldn't hire someone who's actively going to detract from that effort. It'd be like hiring a reckless loudmouth who loves to make people look bad as your head of PR. Literally the opposite of what you need them to accomplish. (I also find it suspect that equity or inclusion are "political," but that's another matter.)
  - telotortium 3y ago
    Generally, the people in support of DEI are fond of the expression "the personal is political" or even "everything is political", so why wouldn't DEI be political? Given that it involves the organization of society and is controversial, DEI seems like the prototypical example of something political. It would be clearer for everyone if DEI openly accepted their role as political commissars.
    - spondylosaurus 3y ago
      I have literally never once heard language like that from DEI professionals; in every context I've encountered them, they've basically been an emissary of HR and had a "be nice but don't rock the boat" mentality, for better or for worse. And I'm speaking as someone who falls into several ""diverse"" hiring categories. As much as I appreciate the philosophy of DEI work, I personally find most of it pretty toothless. There have even been multiple instances of myself and other rank-and-file coworkers trying to have discussions about bigotry at large (not even in the workplace itself), only to be shut down by those very same DEI coordinators under the guise of "let's use kind words instead of unkind words," because it's not good HR-speak to call a spade a spade. Like, these are people employeed by huge corporate entities, not radical freedom fighters. A lot of it is just image work to make sure your company doesn't do or say shit that makes you look bad.
      - JenrHywy 3y ago
        I had someone from our diversity team say, in a meeting of 100+, that the problem that the team are trying to combat is "whiteness". This coming from a white woman who quite openly said that she'd only recently started identifying as diverse because one of her parents spoke a non-English language.
        spondylosaurus 3y ago
        Oh boy... sounds like a piece of work :P I know the type you're referring to—people punchdrunk on their own performative "activism" who love to make everything about themselves—and they're pretty cringey, but at least in my experience they're far from the norm on corporate DEI teams. Honestly super ballsy of her to pull the Diverse White Lady move like that... I'd be shocked if no one else on the team gave her a talking-to, unless (1) she's the boss or (2) everyone else on the diversity team is white. (Which does happen, and isn't great, but also is pretty funny in juxtaposition with the claims you'll hear about DEI teams being radical Marxist plots or whatever. Half the time these teams are just a bunch of HR managers named Linda who get the letters in LGBT mixed up.)
      - 3y ago
  - LawTalkingGuy 3y ago
    > I also find it suspect that equity or inclusion are "political," The way you say "suspect" seems like an attempt to sway opinion, which seems like a tacit admission that that the terms are political. For instance, inclusion of who? What groups do you divide the world's people into such that you need one of every group for proper representation? > Logistically speaking, it makes zero sense to hire an anti-diversity advocate for a DEI role. I think most people can do jobs they don't agree with. An engineer can design a bridge that they didn't vote for, an administrator can follow rules they wouldn't have chosen, etc. > Companies only have DEI teams because they want to promote diversity, equity, and inclusion; How should you do that though? Is any diversity of thought allowed? For instance, is anyone allowed to think that affirmative action is ultimately harmful and focus on the diversity and inclusion over "equity", and/or argue for what they feel are more helpful methods? Is DEI defined as a specific set of practices or a general goal of bettering society?