6 ms·

Maybe it's just me but I like the "Strong use of color" better. I find it hard to quickly find the tool button I want when they're all monochrome. I'm sure I'd

Maybe it's just me but I like the "Strong use of color" better. I find it hard to quickly find the tool button I want when they're all monochrome. I'm sure I'd get used to it, but I can't really say the colors in the GUI are my primary distraction when I'm coding...

ax 15y ago
Quote from the article: In VS 11 we have transitioned to glyph style iconography throughout the product. While we understand that opinions on this new style of iconography may vary, an icon recognition study conducted with 76 participants, 40 existing and 36 new VS users, showed no negative effect in icon recognition rates for either group due to the glyph style transition. In the case of the new VS users they were able to successfully identify the new VS 11 icons faster than the VS 2010 icons (i.e., given a command, users were faster at pointing to the icon representing that command). In this and subsequent studies more developers have expressed a preference for the glyph style icons over the former style, especially after having spent time getting used to the new glyph style icons.
- WayneDB 15y ago
  That's great, except the test is not taking into account my personal preference. I don't use the icons very much to do things - I mostly use keyboard shortcuts. Now, I'm going to be stuck looking at that garbage all day. Furthermore...76 participants? That doesn't prove anything.
  - Too 15y ago
    If you know all the relevant keyboard shorcuts you can just hide the toolbars :)
    - WayneDB 15y ago
      I like the toolbars though. I guess what I like and what I want didn't test well though...with that enormous sample size.
  - bentlegen 15y ago
    Neither does your singular data point.
    - WayneDB 15y ago
      How about 200+ comments on the actual article mirroring my exact sentiment?
      - nefasti 15y ago
        Because the internet is made of whiners?
        WayneDB 15y ago
        And also people who somehow know that a UI without colors (or some other moronic, one-size-fits-all idea) is a good thing for every other user on Earth, for ever and ever, Amen.
      - Shorel 15y ago
        They use and recognize the 2010 icons. I don't use either, and I think the 2011 are easier and faster to recognize.
- Shorel 15y ago
  Just by looking at the images in the article, I do agree with those findings. (I do compile with VS, but edit my files in SublimeText)
ajross 15y ago
Some of us grognards would argue that if you're having trouble finding buttons, they really shouldn't be on the screen at all. Seriously, why must IDEs look like this? Why is there screen space dedicated to documentation when I'm not reading docs? Why are there multiple horizontal bars at both the top and bottom of the full-screen display when the single most important activity in the app is scanning very long text files often dozens of times "higher" than the screen. Seriously, every line of text is precious, why must we steal them from the editor with a title bar and a menu bar and a tool bar (thankfully they now have only one toolbar) and a tab bar and a status bar. Why does anyone think this is a good design?
- dkersten 15y ago
  why must IDEs look like this? Qt Creator is currently my favourite IDE to develop C++ in (even if it does not use Qt) and it doesn't look like this.
  - ajross 15y ago
    I've used Qt Creator only once or twice, but my memory (and the handful of screenshots I see on google image search) is that it's pretty much the same. An editor rectangle embedded in a bunch of other crap with way too much vertical space above and below it dedicated to things that aren't very important. For reference, my emacs window has the gnome 3 panel and the window manager title bar as waste and that's it. And for years I ran a custom metacity theme which turned off the title bars entirely (haven't managed to port that to gnome shell yet).
    - mkl 15y ago
      I think your recollection/search is incorrect. Qt Creator has a menu bar, navigation bar, and output selector etc. bar, all the height of a single line of text. There are no toolbars at all - none that can even be turned on. Much of the status and control interface is in a vertical bar on the left.
    - dkersten 15y ago
      A typical session looks like this [1]. With the documentation window open, it looks like this [2]. The GUI designer looks like this [3] (there's also a second "designer" for Qt Quick). The debugger looks like this [4]. With the compile log/error log/search results window open, it looks like this [5]. About 80% of the time, when I use Qt Creator, especially if I'm not developing a GUI application (in which case I also use the designer), my screen looks like [1]. On the other hand, to my eyes at least, most other IDE's look something like this [6], [7] or very very extreme cases [8]. That is, they lose a lot of vertical space to tool bars. When I'm developing on Linux and I'm not developing a Qt GUI application in C++, I use a mixture of text-mode vim, geany and gedit in a tiling window manager (that is, the "dock windows" in most IDEs are windows that I have tiled, or vim panels) with no window borders or decorations whatsoever [9]. [1] http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4d/QtCreator-Linux-2.0.1.png http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4d/QtCreator... [2] http://www.developer.nokia.com/Resources/Library/Porting_to_Qt/Porting%20WP%20to%20Qt/Screenshot-qtcreator-overview.png http://www.developer.nokia.com/Resources/Library/Porting_to_... [3] http://linux.leunen.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/qtcreator_designer.png http://linux.leunen.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/qtcreator... [4] http://lists.qt.nokia.com/pipermail/qt-creator/attachments/20090903/70c85ec2/attachment.png http://lists.qt.nokia.com/pipermail/qt-creator/attachments/2... [5] http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-teVIBJ45OEU/Twbi9_wQd_I/AAAAAAAAAYQ/eixJ2YLG-Pk/s1600/snapshot12.png http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-teVIBJ45OEU/Twbi9_wQd_I/AAAAAAAAAY... [6] http://www.eclipse.org/screenshots/images/SDK-RedFlag_Linux.png http://www.eclipse.org/screenshots/images/SDK-RedFlag_Linux.... [7] http://www.hanselman.com/blog/content/binary/WindowsLiveWriter/MultithreadedDebugginginVisualStudio2008_E599/Listing23-04_app%20(Debugging)%20-%20Microsoft%20Visual%20Studio%20(Administrator)%20(5).png http://www.hanselman.com/blog/content/binary/WindowsLiveWrit... [8] http://swtswing.sourceforge.net/screenshots/images/EclipseMetalL&F.png http://swtswing.sourceforge.net/screenshots/images/EclipseMe... [9] Not my screenshot, but similar: http://static.milkbox.net/ss/ss-2009-05-06.png http://static.milkbox.net/ss/ss-2009-05-06.png

ax 15y ago

Quote from the article: In VS 11 we have transitioned to glyph style iconography throughout the product. While we understand that opinions on this new style of iconography may vary, an icon recognition study conducted with 76 participants, 40 existing and 36 new VS users, showed no negative effect in icon recognition rates for either group due to the glyph style transition. In the case of the new VS users they were able to successfully identify the new VS 11 icons faster than the VS 2010 icons (i.e., given a command, users were faster at pointing to the icon representing that command). In this and subsequent studies more developers have expressed a preference for the glyph style icons over the former style, especially after having spent time getting used to the new glyph style icons.

WayneDB 15y ago
That's great, except the test is not taking into account my personal preference. I don't use the icons very much to do things - I mostly use keyboard shortcuts. Now, I'm going to be stuck looking at that garbage all day. Furthermore...76 participants? That doesn't prove anything.
- Too 15y ago
  If you know all the relevant keyboard shorcuts you can just hide the toolbars :)
  - WayneDB 15y ago
    I like the toolbars though. I guess what I like and what I want didn't test well though...with that enormous sample size.
- bentlegen 15y ago
  Neither does your singular data point.
  - WayneDB 15y ago
    How about 200+ comments on the actual article mirroring my exact sentiment?
    - nefasti 15y ago
      Because the internet is made of whiners?
      - WayneDB 15y ago
        And also people who somehow know that a UI without colors (or some other moronic, one-size-fits-all idea) is a good thing for every other user on Earth, for ever and ever, Amen.
    - Shorel 15y ago
      They use and recognize the 2010 icons. I don't use either, and I think the 2011 are easier and faster to recognize.
Shorel 15y ago
Just by looking at the images in the article, I do agree with those findings. (I do compile with VS, but edit my files in SublimeText)

ajross 15y ago

Some of us grognards would argue that if you're having trouble finding buttons, they really shouldn't be on the screen at all. Seriously, why must IDEs look like this? Why is there screen space dedicated to documentation when I'm not reading docs? Why are there multiple horizontal bars at both the top and bottom of the full-screen display when the single most important activity in the app is scanning very long text files often dozens of times "higher" than the screen. Seriously, every line of text is precious, why must we steal them from the editor with a title bar and a menu bar and a tool bar (thankfully they now have only one toolbar) and a tab bar and a status bar. Why does anyone think this is a good design?

dkersten 15y ago
why must IDEs look like this? Qt Creator is currently my favourite IDE to develop C++ in (even if it does not use Qt) and it doesn't look like this.
- ajross 15y ago
  I've used Qt Creator only once or twice, but my memory (and the handful of screenshots I see on google image search) is that it's pretty much the same. An editor rectangle embedded in a bunch of other crap with way too much vertical space above and below it dedicated to things that aren't very important. For reference, my emacs window has the gnome 3 panel and the window manager title bar as waste and that's it. And for years I ran a custom metacity theme which turned off the title bars entirely (haven't managed to port that to gnome shell yet).
  - mkl 15y ago
    I think your recollection/search is incorrect. Qt Creator has a menu bar, navigation bar, and output selector etc. bar, all the height of a single line of text. There are no toolbars at all - none that can even be turned on. Much of the status and control interface is in a vertical bar on the left.
  - dkersten 15y ago
    A typical session looks like this [1]. With the documentation window open, it looks like this [2]. The GUI designer looks like this [3] (there's also a second "designer" for Qt Quick). The debugger looks like this [4]. With the compile log/error log/search results window open, it looks like this [5]. About 80% of the time, when I use Qt Creator, especially if I'm not developing a GUI application (in which case I also use the designer), my screen looks like [1]. On the other hand, to my eyes at least, most other IDE's look something like this [6], [7] or very very extreme cases [8]. That is, they lose a lot of vertical space to tool bars. When I'm developing on Linux and I'm not developing a Qt GUI application in C++, I use a mixture of text-mode vim, geany and gedit in a tiling window manager (that is, the "dock windows" in most IDEs are windows that I have tiled, or vim panels) with no window borders or decorations whatsoever [9]. [1] http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4d/QtCreator-Linux-2.0.1.png http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4d/QtCreator... [2] http://www.developer.nokia.com/Resources/Library/Porting_to_Qt/Porting%20WP%20to%20Qt/Screenshot-qtcreator-overview.png http://www.developer.nokia.com/Resources/Library/Porting_to_... [3] http://linux.leunen.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/qtcreator_designer.png http://linux.leunen.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/qtcreator... [4] http://lists.qt.nokia.com/pipermail/qt-creator/attachments/20090903/70c85ec2/attachment.png http://lists.qt.nokia.com/pipermail/qt-creator/attachments/2... [5] http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-teVIBJ45OEU/Twbi9_wQd_I/AAAAAAAAAYQ/eixJ2YLG-Pk/s1600/snapshot12.png http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-teVIBJ45OEU/Twbi9_wQd_I/AAAAAAAAAY... [6] http://www.eclipse.org/screenshots/images/SDK-RedFlag_Linux.png http://www.eclipse.org/screenshots/images/SDK-RedFlag_Linux.... [7] http://www.hanselman.com/blog/content/binary/WindowsLiveWriter/MultithreadedDebugginginVisualStudio2008_E599/Listing23-04_app%20(Debugging)%20-%20Microsoft%20Visual%20Studio%20(Administrator)%20(5).png http://www.hanselman.com/blog/content/binary/WindowsLiveWrit... [8] http://swtswing.sourceforge.net/screenshots/images/EclipseMetalL&F.png http://swtswing.sourceforge.net/screenshots/images/EclipseMe... [9] Not my screenshot, but similar: http://static.milkbox.net/ss/ss-2009-05-06.png http://static.milkbox.net/ss/ss-2009-05-06.png