9 ms·

here's the thing, humanity got lucky. there was a nonzero chance that china and the dictatorships could have triumphed. if China didn't botch the chance to over

here's the thing, humanity got lucky. there was a nonzero chance that china and the dictatorships could have triumphed. if China didn't botch the chance to overtake US in 2008 with a capable dictator. if China got its hands on many advanced US military technologies. if Russia didn't botch the Ukraine invasion. if covid didn't have a vaccine, except one that China developed. I'm sure most of us are aware of the gulags that China ran in 2022, in the most prosperous city like Shanghai, with welded doors, lack of food, arbitrary killing of pets, moving their own citizens against their wills to camps or cells with no running water and unsanitary conditions. with cries in tall buildings from families in the middle of night for food. If. you haven't seen these things, go watch it online. Imagine if somehow China succeeded, and that's most of humanity's fate.

wazer5 3y ago
Wow you should visit China though, it's great. I feel for those who don't get to experience the benefits of globalization.
- marianatom 3y ago
  lol, how presumptuous. I have visited China in 2007, before it turned authoritarian/dictatorship. I would not visit China again to support the dictatorship. I can visit any number of democratic countries like Taiwan. I feel for those who don't get that they are supporting evil. Btw, speaking of evil, China isn't giving up yet (Xi still have 10-20 years to live. free organ transplants from young Chinese, you know. high ranking politicians get them for free). It is producing destroyers at a massive rate, and will exceed # of destroyers that US has by 2040. Combined with the millions of disposable unemployed single young men, and there's still a chance that Taiwan would overwhelmed. and if Taiwan falls, the same strategy can be used to conquer Japan, South Korea, Philippines, Australia.
  - jldugger 3y ago
    > will exceed # of destroyers that US has by 2040 Bear in mind that China has pretty much no oil and these 055 destroyer boats are diesel&gas turbine powered. And the US has been slowly winding down military presence since the Cold War ended basically[1]. And lemme tell you, if Taiwan goes hot, there wont be any USN boats spare to patrol the Middle East -> South China sea route, and nobody would be angry if any oil tankers on that route go missing. [1]: https://www.aspistrategist.org.au/graph-of-the-week-why-fleet-size-matters/ https://www.aspistrategist.org.au/graph-of-the-week-why-flee...
    - Detrytus 3y ago
      > Bear in mind that China has pretty much no oil and these 055 destroyer boats are diesel&gas turbine powered. Well, then they are lucky that Russia, now sanctioned by the West, has no choice but to sell all their oil to China, at discount prices.
      - jldugger 3y ago
        By way of one tiny pipeline that has to travel across an entire continent the long way, or via boat through the suez canal?
        dfadsadsf 3y ago
        There is oil in Sakhalin Island, new pipelines are planned and existing railways are fully capable to transport enough oil to sustain military campaign if China curtains civilian oil consumption (like every country at war did in WW2). Frankly highlighting China dependence on maritime trade is a cope. It just won’t matter much in hot war.
        CRConrad 3y ago
        > or via boat through the suez canal? Nah. Ship.
  - robbiep 3y ago
    There is no logical, or even mythical, reason to conquer another territory (excluding taiwan from this). China really wants to be involved in long term insurgencies across Asia? Why?
- pdonis 3y ago
  The "greatness" of China is an excellent example of Cheops' Law: You can do anything you put your mind to if you have an endless supply of expendable labor.
- randomopining 3y ago
  Great in which way? I guess working for peanuts is a great step up for people who suffered through famines. Otherwise it's the common battle between "orderliness at any cost" and freedoms. US or Europe seems to strike a better balance, for all of their shortcomings. In China its ruled by the CCP with an iron fist.
newuser94303 3y ago
I don't think that China has any interest in conquering the rest of World. They just want to be rich. They are stealing IP and spying. The fact that the US needs to use military force is a failure of policy. Violence is the last resort of the incompetent. I think that China is pulling on the US what the US did to the Soviet Union. The US bankrupted the Soviet Union with an arms race. China is doing it much more economically by spending 1/3 of the US. This is money that the US could be using to build a high speed rail network or educating its citizens.
- marianatom 3y ago
  There are so many wrongs with your statements that I don't know where to start. I'll just tackle one of them. "build a high speed rail network", implying that US is failing there. China is suffering from a $1 TRILLION debt for its rails https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Markets/China-debt-crunch/China-Railway-s-debt-nears-900bn-under-expansion-push https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Markets/China-debt-crunch/C..., while ridership collapses https://japan-forward.com/weak-demand-for-chinas-high-speed-trains-a-ticking-time-bomb/ https://japan-forward.com/weak-demand-for-chinas-high-speed-.... Cities in China are suffering from $23 TRILLION insolvent debt and inability to raise more https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2023-05-21/china-s-23-trillion-local-debt-crisis-threatens-xi-s-economy https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2023-05-21/china-s-2.... I certainly hope US doesn't suffer the same fate.
  - throw_pm23 3y ago
    when you are $1k in debt, you are in trouble. When you are trillions in debt, the "bank" is in trouble.
  - cyberax 3y ago
    The thing is, debts are just numbers on paper at the end of the day. You can erase them, but the infrastructure will remain. Erasing debts wipes out (most) savings and hurts rich people. So it's not something that can be done lightly, but it is an option. Also, Chinese HSR ridership is back up after COVID restrictions were lifted.
throwaway6734 3y ago
It's not just luck though. The American system is better than both the Chinese and Russian ones.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

wazer5 3y ago

Wow you should visit China though, it's great. I feel for those who don't get to experience the benefits of globalization.

marianatom 3y ago
lol, how presumptuous. I have visited China in 2007, before it turned authoritarian/dictatorship. I would not visit China again to support the dictatorship. I can visit any number of democratic countries like Taiwan. I feel for those who don't get that they are supporting evil. Btw, speaking of evil, China isn't giving up yet (Xi still have 10-20 years to live. free organ transplants from young Chinese, you know. high ranking politicians get them for free). It is producing destroyers at a massive rate, and will exceed # of destroyers that US has by 2040. Combined with the millions of disposable unemployed single young men, and there's still a chance that Taiwan would overwhelmed. and if Taiwan falls, the same strategy can be used to conquer Japan, South Korea, Philippines, Australia.
- jldugger 3y ago
  > will exceed # of destroyers that US has by 2040 Bear in mind that China has pretty much no oil and these 055 destroyer boats are diesel&gas turbine powered. And the US has been slowly winding down military presence since the Cold War ended basically[1]. And lemme tell you, if Taiwan goes hot, there wont be any USN boats spare to patrol the Middle East -> South China sea route, and nobody would be angry if any oil tankers on that route go missing. [1]: https://www.aspistrategist.org.au/graph-of-the-week-why-fleet-size-matters/ https://www.aspistrategist.org.au/graph-of-the-week-why-flee...
  - Detrytus 3y ago
    > Bear in mind that China has pretty much no oil and these 055 destroyer boats are diesel&gas turbine powered. Well, then they are lucky that Russia, now sanctioned by the West, has no choice but to sell all their oil to China, at discount prices.
    - jldugger 3y ago
      By way of one tiny pipeline that has to travel across an entire continent the long way, or via boat through the suez canal?
      - dfadsadsf 3y ago
        There is oil in Sakhalin Island, new pipelines are planned and existing railways are fully capable to transport enough oil to sustain military campaign if China curtains civilian oil consumption (like every country at war did in WW2). Frankly highlighting China dependence on maritime trade is a cope. It just won’t matter much in hot war.
      - CRConrad 3y ago
        > or via boat through the suez canal? Nah. Ship.
- robbiep 3y ago
  There is no logical, or even mythical, reason to conquer another territory (excluding taiwan from this). China really wants to be involved in long term insurgencies across Asia? Why?
pdonis 3y ago
The "greatness" of China is an excellent example of Cheops' Law: You can do anything you put your mind to if you have an endless supply of expendable labor.
randomopining 3y ago
Great in which way? I guess working for peanuts is a great step up for people who suffered through famines. Otherwise it's the common battle between "orderliness at any cost" and freedoms. US or Europe seems to strike a better balance, for all of their shortcomings. In China its ruled by the CCP with an iron fist.

newuser94303 3y ago

I don't think that China has any interest in conquering the rest of World. They just want to be rich. They are stealing IP and spying. The fact that the US needs to use military force is a failure of policy. Violence is the last resort of the incompetent. I think that China is pulling on the US what the US did to the Soviet Union. The US bankrupted the Soviet Union with an arms race. China is doing it much more economically by spending 1/3 of the US. This is money that the US could be using to build a high speed rail network or educating its citizens.

marianatom 3y ago
There are so many wrongs with your statements that I don't know where to start. I'll just tackle one of them. "build a high speed rail network", implying that US is failing there. China is suffering from a $1 TRILLION debt for its rails https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Markets/China-debt-crunch/China-Railway-s-debt-nears-900bn-under-expansion-push https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Markets/China-debt-crunch/C..., while ridership collapses https://japan-forward.com/weak-demand-for-chinas-high-speed-trains-a-ticking-time-bomb/ https://japan-forward.com/weak-demand-for-chinas-high-speed-.... Cities in China are suffering from $23 TRILLION insolvent debt and inability to raise more https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2023-05-21/china-s-23-trillion-local-debt-crisis-threatens-xi-s-economy https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2023-05-21/china-s-2.... I certainly hope US doesn't suffer the same fate.
- throw_pm23 3y ago
  when you are $1k in debt, you are in trouble. When you are trillions in debt, the "bank" is in trouble.
- cyberax 3y ago
  The thing is, debts are just numbers on paper at the end of the day. You can erase them, but the infrastructure will remain. Erasing debts wipes out (most) savings and hurts rich people. So it's not something that can be done lightly, but it is an option. Also, Chinese HSR ridership is back up after COVID restrictions were lifted.

throwaway6734 3y ago

It's not just luck though. The American system is better than both the Chinese and Russian ones.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]