6 ms·

Next years headlines "Why did food prices skyrocket?" Socialism never works, not even this time. Not even next time.

by skymast 3y ago

kgwxd 3y ago
Capitalism didn't work either. Maybe we should try a little of both at the same time.
- PM_me_your_math 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - uoaei 3y ago
    I don't think you know what the word socialist actually means. Biden is certainly not that. And the issue with the energy is due largely to price and supply games by MBS and the other gangsters of OPEC. The whole point is to get naive and ignorant people to blame Biden for something out of his control so they can force a narrative that helps the chances of other demagogues and sycophants of the gilded dictators.
    - Sohcahtoa82 3y ago
      Socialism is when the government does stuff. /s
    - PM_me_your_math 3y ago
      On day one Joey Feebles neutered our energy industry. The president sets energy policy, or didn't you know? Do you honestly believe that the executive who sets policy has no effect?
      - uoaei 3y ago
        The president doesn't set (artificial, external) supply constraints nor prices, so your point seems either malformed or just wrong.
rndmize 3y ago
Do you mean last year's headlines? Or this years?
surgical_fire 3y ago
Socialism works fine for the rich in capitalist countries. The government is always quick to bail them out with everybody's money whenever something doesn't go their way. Remember that funky business of SVB some time ago? I didn't even mention the number of loopholes and tax exemptions they get. Maybe extending those benefits to lower castes of society would be a good idea.
bcrosby95 3y ago
I'm curious why you think food prices will rise. Governments already fight hunger in various ways, so I assume you don't believe some people have to starve for food to be affordable to the rest of us. I assume it's from the angle of: whose going to work to farm/sell the food if they get UBI? Or was yours just a sarcastic knee-jerk response?
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- ehvatum 3y ago
  > I'm curious why you think food prices will rise More money (provided by UBI) chasing fewer resources (less reason to work) until a new equilibrium is reached. Somebody has to farm, and it’s not easy work.
- xivzgrev 3y ago
  Assume for a moment all farmers continue to work. Sellers are incentivized to charge as much as the market will bear. Suppose you have a market of 1 person and he has $10 to spend on pork per month. You as the pork producer will charge $10 for a months supply of pork (if you can profit). Suppose that is how things go. Now you learn your customer has $20 to spend on pork thanks to an increase in government benefits. The customer is feeling much better about himself. But Whoopee, you can suddenly charge $20!! The customer now has a dilemma: either give you his increase, or go without pork. He choose to continue buying pork. He is no better off, it just enriches you the seller. Now this is not perfect - it’s quite possible some new pork farmer may enter the market and charge $15. But more money tends to just shift price points up. What actually lowers real prices is shifts in supply (offshoring, crop yield technologies, etc). Consider an even simpler example, your own spending. If you suddenly gained $2k per month more, that’d be great! You could save, or buy something nice etc. but your consumption will largely remain the same - you still need housing, food, transit, etc. what if those suppliers just happen to increase prices at the same time? Are you really going to change your patterns? Probably not especially if it’s all suppliers, like we saw with covid. Everything got more expensive but everyone kept buying because they still need what they need. And if there was suddenly an increase in government benefits, you can safely bet most suppliers would raise prices as much as they can.
unclenoriega 3y ago
I'm curious why you describe UBI as socialism. I wouldn't think transfer payments would have that deep of an effect on the underlying economic system. Are you suggesting that without fear of starvation the workers will rise up and seize the means of production?
fswd 3y ago
Correct. Similarly, Food prices have dramatically gone down since they cut out the extra COVID foodstamps in my state. It's not the only reason, but I know people with like $2000 in foodstamps that don't know what to do with it
- grey_earthling 3y ago
  The U.S. economy and welfare state are quite dissimilar to the UK.
nly 3y ago
Yeah! Because the amount of food you eat is only limited by how much money you have, right?

Next years headlines "Why did food prices skyrocket?" Socialism never works, not even this time. Not even next time.

kgwxd 3y ago

Capitalism didn't work either. Maybe we should try a little of both at the same time.

PM_me_your_math 3y ago
[flagged]
- uoaei 3y ago
  I don't think you know what the word socialist actually means. Biden is certainly not that. And the issue with the energy is due largely to price and supply games by MBS and the other gangsters of OPEC. The whole point is to get naive and ignorant people to blame Biden for something out of his control so they can force a narrative that helps the chances of other demagogues and sycophants of the gilded dictators.
  - Sohcahtoa82 3y ago
    Socialism is when the government does stuff. /s
  - PM_me_your_math 3y ago
    On day one Joey Feebles neutered our energy industry. The president sets energy policy, or didn't you know? Do you honestly believe that the executive who sets policy has no effect?
    - uoaei 3y ago
      The president doesn't set (artificial, external) supply constraints nor prices, so your point seems either malformed or just wrong.

rndmize 3y ago

Do you mean last year's headlines? Or this years?

surgical_fire 3y ago

Socialism works fine for the rich in capitalist countries. The government is always quick to bail them out with everybody's money whenever something doesn't go their way. Remember that funky business of SVB some time ago? I didn't even mention the number of loopholes and tax exemptions they get. Maybe extending those benefits to lower castes of society would be a good idea.

bcrosby95 3y ago

I'm curious why you think food prices will rise. Governments already fight hunger in various ways, so I assume you don't believe some people have to starve for food to be affordable to the rest of us. I assume it's from the angle of: whose going to work to farm/sell the food if they get UBI? Or was yours just a sarcastic knee-jerk response?

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
ehvatum 3y ago
> I'm curious why you think food prices will rise More money (provided by UBI) chasing fewer resources (less reason to work) until a new equilibrium is reached. Somebody has to farm, and it’s not easy work.
xivzgrev 3y ago
Assume for a moment all farmers continue to work. Sellers are incentivized to charge as much as the market will bear. Suppose you have a market of 1 person and he has $10 to spend on pork per month. You as the pork producer will charge $10 for a months supply of pork (if you can profit). Suppose that is how things go. Now you learn your customer has $20 to spend on pork thanks to an increase in government benefits. The customer is feeling much better about himself. But Whoopee, you can suddenly charge $20!! The customer now has a dilemma: either give you his increase, or go without pork. He choose to continue buying pork. He is no better off, it just enriches you the seller. Now this is not perfect - it’s quite possible some new pork farmer may enter the market and charge $15. But more money tends to just shift price points up. What actually lowers real prices is shifts in supply (offshoring, crop yield technologies, etc). Consider an even simpler example, your own spending. If you suddenly gained $2k per month more, that’d be great! You could save, or buy something nice etc. but your consumption will largely remain the same - you still need housing, food, transit, etc. what if those suppliers just happen to increase prices at the same time? Are you really going to change your patterns? Probably not especially if it’s all suppliers, like we saw with covid. Everything got more expensive but everyone kept buying because they still need what they need. And if there was suddenly an increase in government benefits, you can safely bet most suppliers would raise prices as much as they can.

unclenoriega 3y ago

I'm curious why you describe UBI as socialism. I wouldn't think transfer payments would have that deep of an effect on the underlying economic system. Are you suggesting that without fear of starvation the workers will rise up and seize the means of production?

fswd 3y ago

Correct. Similarly, Food prices have dramatically gone down since they cut out the extra COVID foodstamps in my state. It's not the only reason, but I know people with like $2000 in foodstamps that don't know what to do with it

grey_earthling 3y ago
The U.S. economy and welfare state are quite dissimilar to the UK.

nly 3y ago

Yeah! Because the amount of food you eat is only limited by how much money you have, right?