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In my view, the higher-level issues with the FSD Beta program are: - A failure by Tesla to view the system that they are developing as what it really is - a ph

In my view, the higher-level issues with the FSD Beta program are: - A failure by Tesla to view the system that they are developing as what it really is - a physical safety-critical system and not "an AI". Those two are distinct systems as, with a physical safety-critical systems, the totality of the systems safety components cannot be fully expressed in software - neither initially nor continuously. - To build on that point, Tesla is not allowing the Operational Design Domain (ODD) via a robust, well-maintained validation process determine the vehicle hardware as the ODD demands it to be. Instead, Tesla is trying to "front run" it (ignore the demands of the ODD) by largely focusing on hardware costs. The tension from failing to recognize that is why Tesla, in part, has a long history of being forced to (somewhat clandestinely) change the relevant sensor and compute hardware on their vehicles while promising to "solve FSD" (whatever that means) by the end of every year since around 2015 or so.

judge2020 3y ago
> and not "an AI" But what is AI? If it's just "artificial intelligence", it effectively includes all programming with if/then logic gates based on program input.
- riceart 3y ago
  > it effectively includes all programming with if/then logic gates based on program input. And? You think that is the totality of a physical safety critical system?
  - judge2020 3y ago
    I'm pointing out that calling anything "AI" is both pointless and meaningless. It's a buzzword for board members and shareholders to throw around, since they refer to it as the latest LLM technology, while the phrase just means any complex business logic generated by a program.
    - v0idzer0 3y ago
      It’s generally accepted to mean the use of neural networks which Tesla is obviously using. Good luck even identifying a stop sign with “complex business logic” or “if/else”
      - oblib 3y ago
        They're "artificial neural networks" and it would seem to me it's recognizing stop signs by comparing them to images of stop signs. So I tend to lean toward "AI" is the latest "buzzword". I think in truth it's more akin to a search engine reacting to inputs, but from sensor data, than anything close to real "intelligence" of any kind. I can see how it appears to intelligent, but it lacks reasoning, creativity, and critical thinking.
        zeknife 3y ago
        If I had a fully functional self-driving car, I wouldn't be lamenting that it wasn't creative enough
        MereInterest 3y ago
        “Creative” doesn’t necessarily mean “generating new behavior”, but can also mean “generating new hypotheses”. Suppose you see a group of young kids playing in a yard. One tosses a ball up into the air, and the rest run towards it. The first to reach the ball throws it back into the air, and the rest run toward it again. It requires creativity to recognize the rules of the game as “try to be the first to reach the ball”, to recognize that the thrower may not have time to carefully aim, and that the others might chase the ball regardless of its location. Only if all three of those creative leaps are made, then logical deduction can take over to conclude “if the ball goes in front of me, stop before a kid does the same”.
      - josefx 3y ago
        Most important road signs have rather distinct shapes, standardized sizes and are angled towards oncoming traffic. Having an object with known shape aligned almost perfectly towards the camera is basically the best case for many primitive object detection algorithms.

judge2020 3y ago

> and not "an AI" But what is AI? If it's just "artificial intelligence", it effectively includes all programming with if/then logic gates based on program input.

riceart 3y ago
> it effectively includes all programming with if/then logic gates based on program input. And? You think that is the totality of a physical safety critical system?
- judge2020 3y ago
  I'm pointing out that calling anything "AI" is both pointless and meaningless. It's a buzzword for board members and shareholders to throw around, since they refer to it as the latest LLM technology, while the phrase just means any complex business logic generated by a program.
  - v0idzer0 3y ago
    It’s generally accepted to mean the use of neural networks which Tesla is obviously using. Good luck even identifying a stop sign with “complex business logic” or “if/else”
    - oblib 3y ago
      They're "artificial neural networks" and it would seem to me it's recognizing stop signs by comparing them to images of stop signs. So I tend to lean toward "AI" is the latest "buzzword". I think in truth it's more akin to a search engine reacting to inputs, but from sensor data, than anything close to real "intelligence" of any kind. I can see how it appears to intelligent, but it lacks reasoning, creativity, and critical thinking.
      - zeknife 3y ago
        If I had a fully functional self-driving car, I wouldn't be lamenting that it wasn't creative enough
        MereInterest 3y ago
        “Creative” doesn’t necessarily mean “generating new behavior”, but can also mean “generating new hypotheses”. Suppose you see a group of young kids playing in a yard. One tosses a ball up into the air, and the rest run towards it. The first to reach the ball throws it back into the air, and the rest run toward it again. It requires creativity to recognize the rules of the game as “try to be the first to reach the ball”, to recognize that the thrower may not have time to carefully aim, and that the others might chase the ball regardless of its location. Only if all three of those creative leaps are made, then logical deduction can take over to conclude “if the ball goes in front of me, stop before a kid does the same”.
    - josefx 3y ago
      Most important road signs have rather distinct shapes, standardized sizes and are angled towards oncoming traffic. Having an object with known shape aligned almost perfectly towards the camera is basically the best case for many primitive object detection algorithms.