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No, those people are mad about Airbnb and that's not the same thing. I have rented my vacation home for years and maybe once did I have a "digital nomad." And

No, those people are mad about Airbnb and that's not the same thing. I have rented my vacation home for years and maybe once did I have a "digital nomad." And I don't know about Bali, but I pay taxes through the nose on each rental for them and the property taxes and income taxes if I make a profit or not (not in the US). I'm happy to do it, I'm not complaining about paying them but don't tell me I don't. Also these things happen because the locals' governments enabled it. Many countries even have a "digital nomad" visa, but if you allow visa-free entry and all people are doing is using the Internet, then again, that's internal immigration laws. There's no "cheating" at all. It's not like a "digital nomad" in Lisbon got free health care, tuition, or transport and if their landlords aren't paying property tax or income tax, again, that's not really the fault of the tenants. Locals are upset about housing policy and they probably should be. Neighbors are upset about all of their neighborhoods turning into transient AirBnB pitstops with tenants who are rude and loud and they should. But being mad at the people who just clicked online and showed up there is misdirected. It's either landlords who don't enforce rules or governments who don't limit the number of vacation rentals in historical areas. You read these articles and act like everyone is going to look at you with side eye as you walk around. But I just spend a week in Lisbon and it was great and everyone was friendly. Probably the AirBnB model needs to be banned in many places and only bona fide rentals of full places should be allowed, but it depends on the place. If you're in an entire development in a tourist area, everyone's a tourist. Places like downtown Lisbon or Barcelona and other places people are upset should probably ban or limit the number allowed. But anyway, no one is particularly mad at "digital nomads" this is a clickbait article. t. knower

saltcured 3y ago
I agree the main issues are about perceived impact of itinerant visitors (who treat a community like their amusement park) and spending disparity (paradoxically giving locals income and also driving up prices). And, those who are visibly "foreign" are easier targets to vent when frustrated. Ignoring that, I am following the tangential topic about digital nomads, work visas, and taxes. I think the regulations are still trying to catch up. Some folks have a fantasy that when the internet is involved, they are working in cyberspace at the remote end of their network connections. But, the actual rules in most jurisdictions tend to be about your physical location while working. They usually lack any clear rules to disambiguate the spectrum from "traveler on holiday making a few phone calls" and "permanent work from home with foreign employer". This is a gray area and relies on selective enforcement. My experience is a little dated, but I think it is still, sadly, too relevant. I was an expat in SEA about 20 years ago. I was not an itinerant nomad. My partner took a local job there and I went along for the adventure, so we tried to settle in one place. But, my best work prospects remained in the US tech market, just like a digital nomad. My US clients knew they didn't want the hassle of hiring me outside their normal tax jurisdiction, nor the legal risk of pretending I lived in a US mailbox. All the legal advice we could find led to one frustrating answer. To be totally legal, we had to start a local consulting company and take on some local staff (and local shareholders!) so that our company could sponsor my work permit. This also awarded me the right kind of extended visa and proper re-entry permits for when I needed to travel internationally. Our company then had to engage my US "employer" via subcontract. We effectively had to have local staff on retainer even though I didn't need them to satisfy my US client's needs. We had the accounting and tax headaches of running that company, plus local personal income taxes in our host country. Then, as a US citizen, I still had to file US income taxes and try to get all the exclusions and credits to avoid double taxation. Aside from losing money to pay unnecessary local staff, it was difficult to minimize profits that would distribute to the shareholders for what was just an overly complicated solo consultancy. At the same time, I was well aware that others were flying below the radar. They ritualized "visa runs" to cross borders and reenter on temporary tourist visas. They played games where they told a different story to each jurisdiction about where they were really domiciled. I've often wondered how many of them succeeded in this cheating game for decades since I knew them, or whether they eventually got caught up in some kind of financial disaster.
x3874 3y ago
> Probably the AirBnB model needs to be banned in many places and only bona fide rentals of full places should be allowed, but it depends on the place. So because these transient tourist / influencer types or long-term stay idiots who can't behave (i just happen to have to deal with such a "noisy & unconcerned about others type" in the adjoining room - he is Viennese so his personality is kind of self-"explaining) leave 'skidmarks' in neighboorhoods, other travellers who know how to behave and kind of blend in should suffer, i.e. paying thse huge charges for hotels that provide less value? Never would i have had such great times if not being able to travel for a longer period or more often -because great value with local contacts- if not for Airbnb. Got invited for all kinds of events and dinner, even on Christmas.

saltcured 3y ago

I agree the main issues are about perceived impact of itinerant visitors (who treat a community like their amusement park) and spending disparity (paradoxically giving locals income and also driving up prices). And, those who are visibly "foreign" are easier targets to vent when frustrated. Ignoring that, I am following the tangential topic about digital nomads, work visas, and taxes. I think the regulations are still trying to catch up. Some folks have a fantasy that when the internet is involved, they are working in cyberspace at the remote end of their network connections. But, the actual rules in most jurisdictions tend to be about your physical location while working. They usually lack any clear rules to disambiguate the spectrum from "traveler on holiday making a few phone calls" and "permanent work from home with foreign employer". This is a gray area and relies on selective enforcement. My experience is a little dated, but I think it is still, sadly, too relevant. I was an expat in SEA about 20 years ago. I was not an itinerant nomad. My partner took a local job there and I went along for the adventure, so we tried to settle in one place. But, my best work prospects remained in the US tech market, just like a digital nomad. My US clients knew they didn't want the hassle of hiring me outside their normal tax jurisdiction, nor the legal risk of pretending I lived in a US mailbox. All the legal advice we could find led to one frustrating answer. To be totally legal, we had to start a local consulting company and take on some local staff (and local shareholders!) so that our company could sponsor my work permit. This also awarded me the right kind of extended visa and proper re-entry permits for when I needed to travel internationally. Our company then had to engage my US "employer" via subcontract. We effectively had to have local staff on retainer even though I didn't need them to satisfy my US client's needs. We had the accounting and tax headaches of running that company, plus local personal income taxes in our host country. Then, as a US citizen, I still had to file US income taxes and try to get all the exclusions and credits to avoid double taxation. Aside from losing money to pay unnecessary local staff, it was difficult to minimize profits that would distribute to the shareholders for what was just an overly complicated solo consultancy. At the same time, I was well aware that others were flying below the radar. They ritualized "visa runs" to cross borders and reenter on temporary tourist visas. They played games where they told a different story to each jurisdiction about where they were really domiciled. I've often wondered how many of them succeeded in this cheating game for decades since I knew them, or whether they eventually got caught up in some kind of financial disaster.

x3874 3y ago

> Probably the AirBnB model needs to be banned in many places and only bona fide rentals of full places should be allowed, but it depends on the place. So because these transient tourist / influencer types or long-term stay idiots who can't behave (i just happen to have to deal with such a "noisy & unconcerned about others type" in the adjoining room - he is Viennese so his personality is kind of self-"explaining) leave 'skidmarks' in neighboorhoods, other travellers who know how to behave and kind of blend in should suffer, i.e. paying thse huge charges for hotels that provide less value? Never would i have had such great times if not being able to travel for a longer period or more often -because great value with local contacts- if not for Airbnb. Got invited for all kinds of events and dinner, even on Christmas.