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“In 2025, Ford will offer next-generation electric vehicles with the North American Charging Standard (NACS) connector built-in, eliminating the need for an ada

“In 2025, Ford will offer next-generation electric vehicles with the North American Charging Standard (NACS) connector built-in, eliminating the need for an adapter to access Tesla Superchargers” That’s massive that another automaker is adding the Tesla connector. I’d rather Tesla add the CCS connector, but it will be interesting if Tesla uses their charger network access to push other automakers to add the Tesla connector.

breput 3y ago
There are already a handful of Superchargers that have a CCS adapter built in[0]. Thanks to US federal money, some locations are already set up to charge both Tesla/NACS cars as well as CCS vehicles[1]. These will expand, but if either Hyundai and/or GM now switches to NACS, CCS is dead in the USA. The physical layer is easy - mostly just plastic and metal contacts, as well as minor electrical differences. The reliability and payment layer is where Tesla has way outperformed and it will be interesting to see if Ford can support that with their "Ford Pay" system. [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=240R6RhLGj0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=240R6RhLGj0 [1] https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/ev-chargers/how-well-do-tesla-superchargers-work-for-non-tesla-evs-a4713673565/ https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/ev-chargers/how-well-do...
- simondotau 3y ago
  You are correct though it's slightly more complicated than swapping out the sockets. That's enough to get NACS compatibility, but may not be sufficient for proper compatibility with Tesla's Supercharger network. It assumes the charging port is physically located on the rear left corner (or front right corner) of the vehicle. If the charging port is on the rear right (or front left) corner, they won't line up correctly with Tesla's stalls.
  - clouddrover 3y ago
    > If the charging port is on the rear right (or front left) corner, they won't line up correctly with Tesla's stalls. So what? It's up to Tesla to build better chargers. Here's a start: https://www.theverge.com/2023/4/19/23689247/tesla-v4-supercharger-ev-first-specs-rollout https://www.theverge.com/2023/4/19/23689247/tesla-v4-superch...
    - simondotau 3y ago
      Tesla are not holding a gun to any manufacturer's head here. What attracts automakers to NACS is the ability to offer their customers Tesla's existing Supercharger network. Fine. Compatibility with that existing network means ensuring that the socket on the vehicle is within reach of cables on existing stalls. If they only want compatibility with V4 superchargers, they can stick with CCS1 and let their customers connect through the integrated adaptor.
      - clouddrover 3y ago
        The practical reality is charging with other EV brands on Tesla chargers is already happening regardless of where the charge port is: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Y33AArvMUQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Y33AArvMUQ Don't worry about it.
        simondotau 3y ago
        I assure you I'm not worried about it. I'm not expressing a concern. I'm making an observation about what will obviously happen. Any automaker interested in adopting NACS is going to make sure their vehicle works seamlessly with existing superchargers. If that means moving the charge port from left to right (or right to left) then of course they will do it. It's not a big deal.
      - Robotbeat 3y ago
        Not only that, but the NACS port is smaller, the overall experience is better, and it’s probably cheaper to make, too. Aptera embraced it as well, in part because their smaller vehicle really benefits from the compact design.
FullyFunctional 3y ago
If what I read about the non-SC network, then I have to strongly disagree. The SC network is in my experience extremely dependable and fast. I have at most had an issue with (rare) congestion in peak traveling season at a popular stop. I have never been left stranded with all-broken chargers.
- cduzz 3y ago
  It's my suspicion that it's the difference because of tesla's "all in" view of electric cars -- they need to overcome all potential problem to EV adoption even if there's some theoretical reason not to (IE "GM" never owned gas stations so tesla shouldn't own charging stations). The other big players in the DC fast charging space, like "Electrify America" seem like textbook "malicious compliance" ; they're exemplifying why you shouldn't own an EV -- "look they're expensive and profoundly unreliable; if you try to drive your EV long distances you'll spend 80 extra hours charging!"
pokerhobo 3y ago
The CCS-1 connector is designed by committee and objectively worse than NACS. NACS is smaller (cheaper to make and less heavy to use), require smaller wires, can support higher wattage. Also, the significant majority of EVs in North America already have NACS and the significant majority of chargers also has NACS. Superchargers are slowly rolling out Magic Dock so that CCS-1 EVs can use Superchargers. I get the hate on Tesla (or more specifically Elon), but NACS is simply better for everyone.
- tacticus 3y ago
  Tesla seems fine using the CCS connector everywhere else in the world. And CCS is capable of of doing 360Kw of charge (with the current 400V units and a chunk more on any 800V unit) which is a tiny bit more than 250 max on the NACS
  - hef19898 3y ago
    Well, Apple got away with lightining for long enough. And for the same reasons Tesla does it to. Can't blame them so, we will see if there are any antitrust issues down the road, or if e.g. the EU steps in. But then US spec cars have always been different from other markets.
    - simondotau 3y ago
      The analogy breaks down when you consider that USB-C is an objectively superior and objectively more widely deployed standard than Lightning. The same cannot be said for CCS1 over NACS.
      - hef19898 3y ago
        Globally? It is gonna be CCS, unless Tesla manages to convince enough OEMs to use NACS. In which case there will be two competing standards, aka lightning vs. usb. I am in no position to judge which one is better, I do know so that CCS is more open, being a global standard. And if we want more EVs, global standards are better than closed, proprietary solutions.

breput 3y ago

There are already a handful of Superchargers that have a CCS adapter built in[0]. Thanks to US federal money, some locations are already set up to charge both Tesla/NACS cars as well as CCS vehicles[1]. These will expand, but if either Hyundai and/or GM now switches to NACS, CCS is dead in the USA. The physical layer is easy - mostly just plastic and metal contacts, as well as minor electrical differences. The reliability and payment layer is where Tesla has way outperformed and it will be interesting to see if Ford can support that with their "Ford Pay" system. [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=240R6RhLGj0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=240R6RhLGj0 [1] https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/ev-chargers/how-well-do-tesla-superchargers-work-for-non-tesla-evs-a4713673565/ https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/ev-chargers/how-well-do...

simondotau 3y ago
You are correct though it's slightly more complicated than swapping out the sockets. That's enough to get NACS compatibility, but may not be sufficient for proper compatibility with Tesla's Supercharger network. It assumes the charging port is physically located on the rear left corner (or front right corner) of the vehicle. If the charging port is on the rear right (or front left) corner, they won't line up correctly with Tesla's stalls.
- clouddrover 3y ago
  > If the charging port is on the rear right (or front left) corner, they won't line up correctly with Tesla's stalls. So what? It's up to Tesla to build better chargers. Here's a start: https://www.theverge.com/2023/4/19/23689247/tesla-v4-supercharger-ev-first-specs-rollout https://www.theverge.com/2023/4/19/23689247/tesla-v4-superch...
  - simondotau 3y ago
    Tesla are not holding a gun to any manufacturer's head here. What attracts automakers to NACS is the ability to offer their customers Tesla's existing Supercharger network. Fine. Compatibility with that existing network means ensuring that the socket on the vehicle is within reach of cables on existing stalls. If they only want compatibility with V4 superchargers, they can stick with CCS1 and let their customers connect through the integrated adaptor.
    - clouddrover 3y ago
      The practical reality is charging with other EV brands on Tesla chargers is already happening regardless of where the charge port is: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Y33AArvMUQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Y33AArvMUQ Don't worry about it.
      - simondotau 3y ago
        I assure you I'm not worried about it. I'm not expressing a concern. I'm making an observation about what will obviously happen. Any automaker interested in adopting NACS is going to make sure their vehicle works seamlessly with existing superchargers. If that means moving the charge port from left to right (or right to left) then of course they will do it. It's not a big deal.
    - Robotbeat 3y ago
      Not only that, but the NACS port is smaller, the overall experience is better, and it’s probably cheaper to make, too. Aptera embraced it as well, in part because their smaller vehicle really benefits from the compact design.

FullyFunctional 3y ago

If what I read about the non-SC network, then I have to strongly disagree. The SC network is in my experience extremely dependable and fast. I have at most had an issue with (rare) congestion in peak traveling season at a popular stop. I have never been left stranded with all-broken chargers.

cduzz 3y ago
It's my suspicion that it's the difference because of tesla's "all in" view of electric cars -- they need to overcome all potential problem to EV adoption even if there's some theoretical reason not to (IE "GM" never owned gas stations so tesla shouldn't own charging stations). The other big players in the DC fast charging space, like "Electrify America" seem like textbook "malicious compliance" ; they're exemplifying why you shouldn't own an EV -- "look they're expensive and profoundly unreliable; if you try to drive your EV long distances you'll spend 80 extra hours charging!"

pokerhobo 3y ago

The CCS-1 connector is designed by committee and objectively worse than NACS. NACS is smaller (cheaper to make and less heavy to use), require smaller wires, can support higher wattage. Also, the significant majority of EVs in North America already have NACS and the significant majority of chargers also has NACS. Superchargers are slowly rolling out Magic Dock so that CCS-1 EVs can use Superchargers. I get the hate on Tesla (or more specifically Elon), but NACS is simply better for everyone.

tacticus 3y ago
Tesla seems fine using the CCS connector everywhere else in the world. And CCS is capable of of doing 360Kw of charge (with the current 400V units and a chunk more on any 800V unit) which is a tiny bit more than 250 max on the NACS
- hef19898 3y ago
  Well, Apple got away with lightining for long enough. And for the same reasons Tesla does it to. Can't blame them so, we will see if there are any antitrust issues down the road, or if e.g. the EU steps in. But then US spec cars have always been different from other markets.
  - simondotau 3y ago
    The analogy breaks down when you consider that USB-C is an objectively superior and objectively more widely deployed standard than Lightning. The same cannot be said for CCS1 over NACS.
    - hef19898 3y ago
      Globally? It is gonna be CCS, unless Tesla manages to convince enough OEMs to use NACS. In which case there will be two competing standards, aka lightning vs. usb. I am in no position to judge which one is better, I do know so that CCS is more open, being a global standard. And if we want more EVs, global standards are better than closed, proprietary solutions.