4 ms·

> Both parties do it and always compromise just fine in the end. When have the Democrats refused to raise the debt ceiling without conditions? Maybe they have

> Both parties do it and always compromise just fine in the end. When have the Democrats refused to raise the debt ceiling without conditions? Maybe they have and I've just missed it.

thsksbd 3y ago
[dead]
whateveracct 3y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_United_States_debt_ceiling#:~:text=The%20debt%20ceiling%20was%20raised,debt%20itself%20may%20have%20reduced https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_United_States_d.... Reading through history, it seems it has always been Republicans doing it. You could even say they invented it.
- yamtaddle 3y ago
  That was my recollection, but I thought maybe I'd gotten it wrong. Gotta say, the "takes" I've read on HN while this has been going on have been illuminating. If quite a few people believe this is a "both sides" thing and that both parties are playing games with the debt ceiling, it explains how the GOP could possibly think it's sound strategy. I guess maybe they're even right. It would never have occurred to me that a lot of folks are "reading" this as about-equally the fault of the Democrats, but evidently, they are, and that explains some things.
  - ars 3y ago
    To be simplistic about it: Republicans want to reduce spending, Democrats want to increase it. So obviously Republicans would be against raising the debt ceiling, and just as obviously it's the fault of the Democrats that we need to raise it in the first place. Does that help you understand better what people are thinking? And who they are blaming?
    - whateveracct 3y ago
      This is disingenuous though. The debt ceiling is about paying for spending that was already budgeted for. The spending has happened. If the Republican-controlled House wants to reduce spending, they can do that during budget talks. That would be an appropriate time. And it's their Constitutional power. What they are doing now is using the threat of default to try to get spending concessions. So they are trying to reduce spending, but the debt ceiling is not coupled to it. It just happens to be a piece of leverage they currently have. This entire thing is in bad faith.
      - ars 3y ago
        > is using the threat of default to try to get spending concessions I mean McCarthy went on the record to say "We won't default". That's like .. the opposite of a threat. It's so weird to me how Democrats keep thinking there's actually a possibility of a default, while every moderate and Republican knows very well there is zero possibility of it. There must be something in the mentality of how people view the world that causes this correlation.
    - yamtaddle 3y ago
      > Does that help you understand better what people are thinking? And who they are blaming? It... definitely helps me understand what I'm seeing on here better, yes.
      - ars 3y ago
        And something to note, every single time the debt limit did eventually get raised. And likewise spending did get reduced, although not maybe as much as Republicans would like. Basically the two parties need each other. And the best legislation happens from a mixed Congress.
jimbob45 3y ago
I don’t recognize a meaningful distinction between setting a budget and raising the debt ceiling. Others are certainly free to.

> Both parties do it and always compromise just fine in the end. When have the Democrats refused to raise the debt ceiling without conditions? Maybe they have and I've just missed it.

thsksbd 3y ago

[dead]

whateveracct 3y ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_United_States_debt_ceiling#:~:text=The%20debt%20ceiling%20was%20raised,debt%20itself%20may%20have%20reduced https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_United_States_d.... Reading through history, it seems it has always been Republicans doing it. You could even say they invented it.

yamtaddle 3y ago
That was my recollection, but I thought maybe I'd gotten it wrong. Gotta say, the "takes" I've read on HN while this has been going on have been illuminating. If quite a few people believe this is a "both sides" thing and that both parties are playing games with the debt ceiling, it explains how the GOP could possibly think it's sound strategy. I guess maybe they're even right. It would never have occurred to me that a lot of folks are "reading" this as about-equally the fault of the Democrats, but evidently, they are, and that explains some things.
- ars 3y ago
  To be simplistic about it: Republicans want to reduce spending, Democrats want to increase it. So obviously Republicans would be against raising the debt ceiling, and just as obviously it's the fault of the Democrats that we need to raise it in the first place. Does that help you understand better what people are thinking? And who they are blaming?
  - whateveracct 3y ago
    This is disingenuous though. The debt ceiling is about paying for spending that was already budgeted for. The spending has happened. If the Republican-controlled House wants to reduce spending, they can do that during budget talks. That would be an appropriate time. And it's their Constitutional power. What they are doing now is using the threat of default to try to get spending concessions. So they are trying to reduce spending, but the debt ceiling is not coupled to it. It just happens to be a piece of leverage they currently have. This entire thing is in bad faith.
    - ars 3y ago
      > is using the threat of default to try to get spending concessions I mean McCarthy went on the record to say "We won't default". That's like .. the opposite of a threat. It's so weird to me how Democrats keep thinking there's actually a possibility of a default, while every moderate and Republican knows very well there is zero possibility of it. There must be something in the mentality of how people view the world that causes this correlation.
  - yamtaddle 3y ago
    > Does that help you understand better what people are thinking? And who they are blaming? It... definitely helps me understand what I'm seeing on here better, yes.
    - ars 3y ago
      And something to note, every single time the debt limit did eventually get raised. And likewise spending did get reduced, although not maybe as much as Republicans would like. Basically the two parties need each other. And the best legislation happens from a mixed Congress.

jimbob45 3y ago

I don’t recognize a meaningful distinction between setting a budget and raising the debt ceiling. Others are certainly free to.