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Wintel is dying Microsoft doesn't care, they moved on to Azure and AI Intel kinda cares, but they are moving on to being a fab provider Dell, Lenovo, Acer...

Wintel is dying Microsoft doesn't care, they moved on to Azure and AI Intel kinda cares, but they are moving on to being a fab provider Dell, Lenovo, Acer...they're screwed...they have no other play but Wintel

hn_throwaway_99 3y ago
That really has nothing to do with what this article is about.
- TheRealDunkirk 3y ago
  It may or may not. I've often wondered how much sliding demand for PC's is due to an increase in sales of Apple products. Unfortunately, the entire decades long infatuation with these sales figures relies on Gartner, which I believe was bought off in the early 90's by Microsoft. The critical piece of information that would make these figures useful is what percentage are corporate purchases, and that's the part that's never been reported in all the 30 years I've been watching. Every time I bring it up here, my question is ignored, and I can't figure out why no one else is curious about this.
Dudester230518 3y ago
My WinAMD is doing just fine. No linux trash for me, thanks.
- rejectfinite 3y ago
  Based.
huijzer 3y ago
You are heavily downvoted, but I think you’re right. The Windows + Intel combo appears to be in serious trouble for the PC and laptop markets. The main problem I see is the slowing of Moore’s law and Dennard’s scaling. It used to be that you didn’t have to innovate on a laptop. You only needed to get the state-of-the-art chip on board to beat the competition. This is less so nowadays as can be seen from the Apple laptops which have improved on all layers on the stack. The newest Intel or AMD laptop doesn’t necessarily beat a 2 years old Apple laptop performance and usability wise. Regarding Windows, Microsoft does care according to the build conference from yesterday: they announced plugins inside Windows and other cool new features. However, according to Nadella, Google makes more money on a typical Windows laptop than Microsoft does. I think this partially explains why Windows seems to have stalled innovation wise.
- AzzieElbab 3y ago
  PC demand had always been a mystery to me. Ok, fine, I have to compile a lot of code and sometimes run k8 on my 4-year-old Linux laptop, but who else needs a powerful PC besides gamers(who mainly use consoles anyway) and graphics designers? ML is cloud-based these days, right?
  - taylodl 3y ago
    Have you seen modern CAD software? That's pretty compute intensive. That's just one of many tools in the engineering space that is compute intensive. Remember, there are a lot of engineers! Movie making and editing is still pretty compute intensive, as is animation. Thanks to YouTube, a lot of people have video editing work streams and they're looking for ways to get their work done faster and make their content stand out so that viewers will click those 'Like' and 'Subscribe' buttons so that they make more money. Music making is getting more and more compute intensive, especially nowadays as all the what once were physical processors in the signal chain are all being virtualized. Add in amp simulators, cab simulators, AI drummers, and of course nobody wants any latency, and you need some modern processing muscle to make it all work. Apple makes the Mac Studio for a reason - and it's not for gamers! As far as developers are concerned, no, you don't need much horsepower to "compile a lot of code", but you may need a lot of horsepower to run that code if it's in one of the aforementioned software categories.
    - AzzieElbab 3y ago
      I understand this point, and I agree. What I am saying is that number of creators is tiny when compared to the number of consumers. IMHO the demand for creator tools is too high considering all you need to consume is a browser or tablet, or game console
  - moffkalast 3y ago
    CAD as the other guy points out, video editing/rendering, 3D modelling and animation for gamedev/movie industry, crypto mining. ML is so niche it's a rounding error. > gamers(who mainly use consoles anyway) Listen here, I'll have you know PC gaming is almost half of the entire gaming market: https://venturebeat.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/Newzoo_PC-and-Console-Gaming-Report_Revenue.png?fit=750%2C422&strip=all https://venturebeat.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/Newzoo_PC...
dehrmann 3y ago
Intel also plays in the datacenter space.
dehrmann 3y ago
I halfway want a macbook for my next laptop for this reason, but I find the plastic thinkpad chassis more comfortable, and the data recovery story for macs with a bad cpu/ram is bad.
- r00fus 3y ago
  > data recovery story for macs with a bad cpu/ram is bad This is news to me - got any links?
  - dehrmann 3y ago
    The SSD is soldered to what I guess is an SBC.

hn_throwaway_99 3y ago

That really has nothing to do with what this article is about.

TheRealDunkirk 3y ago
It may or may not. I've often wondered how much sliding demand for PC's is due to an increase in sales of Apple products. Unfortunately, the entire decades long infatuation with these sales figures relies on Gartner, which I believe was bought off in the early 90's by Microsoft. The critical piece of information that would make these figures useful is what percentage are corporate purchases, and that's the part that's never been reported in all the 30 years I've been watching. Every time I bring it up here, my question is ignored, and I can't figure out why no one else is curious about this.

Dudester230518 3y ago

My WinAMD is doing just fine. No linux trash for me, thanks.

rejectfinite 3y ago
Based.

huijzer 3y ago

You are heavily downvoted, but I think you’re right. The Windows + Intel combo appears to be in serious trouble for the PC and laptop markets. The main problem I see is the slowing of Moore’s law and Dennard’s scaling. It used to be that you didn’t have to innovate on a laptop. You only needed to get the state-of-the-art chip on board to beat the competition. This is less so nowadays as can be seen from the Apple laptops which have improved on all layers on the stack. The newest Intel or AMD laptop doesn’t necessarily beat a 2 years old Apple laptop performance and usability wise. Regarding Windows, Microsoft does care according to the build conference from yesterday: they announced plugins inside Windows and other cool new features. However, according to Nadella, Google makes more money on a typical Windows laptop than Microsoft does. I think this partially explains why Windows seems to have stalled innovation wise.

AzzieElbab 3y ago
PC demand had always been a mystery to me. Ok, fine, I have to compile a lot of code and sometimes run k8 on my 4-year-old Linux laptop, but who else needs a powerful PC besides gamers(who mainly use consoles anyway) and graphics designers? ML is cloud-based these days, right?
- taylodl 3y ago
  Have you seen modern CAD software? That's pretty compute intensive. That's just one of many tools in the engineering space that is compute intensive. Remember, there are a lot of engineers! Movie making and editing is still pretty compute intensive, as is animation. Thanks to YouTube, a lot of people have video editing work streams and they're looking for ways to get their work done faster and make their content stand out so that viewers will click those 'Like' and 'Subscribe' buttons so that they make more money. Music making is getting more and more compute intensive, especially nowadays as all the what once were physical processors in the signal chain are all being virtualized. Add in amp simulators, cab simulators, AI drummers, and of course nobody wants any latency, and you need some modern processing muscle to make it all work. Apple makes the Mac Studio for a reason - and it's not for gamers! As far as developers are concerned, no, you don't need much horsepower to "compile a lot of code", but you may need a lot of horsepower to run that code if it's in one of the aforementioned software categories.
  - AzzieElbab 3y ago
    I understand this point, and I agree. What I am saying is that number of creators is tiny when compared to the number of consumers. IMHO the demand for creator tools is too high considering all you need to consume is a browser or tablet, or game console
- moffkalast 3y ago
  CAD as the other guy points out, video editing/rendering, 3D modelling and animation for gamedev/movie industry, crypto mining. ML is so niche it's a rounding error. > gamers(who mainly use consoles anyway) Listen here, I'll have you know PC gaming is almost half of the entire gaming market: https://venturebeat.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/Newzoo_PC-and-Console-Gaming-Report_Revenue.png?fit=750%2C422&strip=all https://venturebeat.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/Newzoo_PC...

dehrmann 3y ago

Intel also plays in the datacenter space.

dehrmann 3y ago

I halfway want a macbook for my next laptop for this reason, but I find the plastic thinkpad chassis more comfortable, and the data recovery story for macs with a bad cpu/ram is bad.

r00fus 3y ago
> data recovery story for macs with a bad cpu/ram is bad This is news to me - got any links?
- dehrmann 3y ago
  The SSD is soldered to what I guess is an SBC.