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Shrug. The Kremlin loudly arresting the Kinzhal developers for treason after the Kinzhals get shot down suggests a clear narrative to me about who is telling th

Shrug. The Kremlin loudly arresting the Kinzhal developers for treason after the Kinzhals get shot down suggests a clear narrative to me about who is telling the truth. The best case you can make for Russia is that the Kinzhal developers actually did commit treason but in a way that was unrelated to the Kinzhal missiles not being effective which is… laughable

the_af 3y ago
Ukraine is also arresting people who film AA incidents, so who cares. The governments of both countries are being "selective" about the truth and imposing censorship by force. Which makes sense at times of war! Nobody here should take anything released by the involved parties (and their sponsors) as gospel. It's war. War is about deception.
- fauxpause_ 3y ago
  The problem with filming AA deployments is not about hiding the efficacy of AA deployments. It’s about hiding their locations. What is the purpose of arresting your missile scientists for treason? What’s your best case interpretation?
  - the_af 3y ago
    > The problem with filming AA deployments is not about hiding the efficacy of AA deployments. The problem is both, and Ukraine is arresting people who film them. It's martial law, both countries are at war and truth suffers (understandably). > What is the purpose of arresting your missile scientists for treason? What’s your best case interpretation? I don't know, I would guess: - They said something about the Khinzal that downplays the importance of the weapon. - They said something that would help Ukraine better counter them. - They said something against Putin or the military invasion. What they very likely didn't say is that the Khinzal is a hypersonic maneuverable weapon, which is the point of TFA you're commenting about.
    - fauxpause_ 3y ago
      Each of three top scientists on the weapon said something treasonous? Or collectively as a group? Nah. Dumb theory. They’re getting arrested because they promised Putin an unstoppable weapon and now he looks like a dumbass.
      - dragonwriter 3y ago
        If making Putin look like a dumbass is a jailable offense, Putin needs to start by arresting himself—no one has done as much of that as he has.
        mrguyorama 3y ago
        Admitting you are wrong and made mistakes is sort of an impossible task for despot dictators though. He has spent decades killing or jailing anyone who told him something he didn't like, so everyone learned to tell him good news. It's part of the reason why the initial invasion went so terribly; Putin's analysts told him Kyiv would bend over immediately, and that the public would welcome them as liberators. Putin smells so much of his own farts that he bought it completely. The analysts were then shocked when Putin said "Okay, invasion today"
        int_19h 3y ago
        Putin is already in direct violation of article 353 of the Russian Criminal Code: "Article 353. Planning, Preparing, Initiating, or Waging War of Aggression 1. Planning, preparing, or initiating a war of aggression - is punishable by deprivation of liberty for a term of seven to fifteen years. 2. Waging a war of aggression - is punishable by deprivation of liberty for a term of ten to twenty years."
        the_af 3y ago
        Who admits to waging a war of aggression though? Putin is framing this as an act of defense, he says he is acting to prevent Russia's enemies from destroying it. When in modern times has an aggressor ever framed the aggression in terms different from a righteous defense?

the_af 3y ago

Ukraine is also arresting people who film AA incidents, so who cares. The governments of both countries are being "selective" about the truth and imposing censorship by force. Which makes sense at times of war! Nobody here should take anything released by the involved parties (and their sponsors) as gospel. It's war. War is about deception.

fauxpause_ 3y ago
The problem with filming AA deployments is not about hiding the efficacy of AA deployments. It’s about hiding their locations. What is the purpose of arresting your missile scientists for treason? What’s your best case interpretation?
- the_af 3y ago
  > The problem with filming AA deployments is not about hiding the efficacy of AA deployments. The problem is both, and Ukraine is arresting people who film them. It's martial law, both countries are at war and truth suffers (understandably). > What is the purpose of arresting your missile scientists for treason? What’s your best case interpretation? I don't know, I would guess: - They said something about the Khinzal that downplays the importance of the weapon. - They said something that would help Ukraine better counter them. - They said something against Putin or the military invasion. What they very likely didn't say is that the Khinzal is a hypersonic maneuverable weapon, which is the point of TFA you're commenting about.
  - fauxpause_ 3y ago
    Each of three top scientists on the weapon said something treasonous? Or collectively as a group? Nah. Dumb theory. They’re getting arrested because they promised Putin an unstoppable weapon and now he looks like a dumbass.
    - dragonwriter 3y ago
      If making Putin look like a dumbass is a jailable offense, Putin needs to start by arresting himself—no one has done as much of that as he has.
      - mrguyorama 3y ago
        Admitting you are wrong and made mistakes is sort of an impossible task for despot dictators though. He has spent decades killing or jailing anyone who told him something he didn't like, so everyone learned to tell him good news. It's part of the reason why the initial invasion went so terribly; Putin's analysts told him Kyiv would bend over immediately, and that the public would welcome them as liberators. Putin smells so much of his own farts that he bought it completely. The analysts were then shocked when Putin said "Okay, invasion today"
      - int_19h 3y ago
        Putin is already in direct violation of article 353 of the Russian Criminal Code: "Article 353. Planning, Preparing, Initiating, or Waging War of Aggression 1. Planning, preparing, or initiating a war of aggression - is punishable by deprivation of liberty for a term of seven to fifteen years. 2. Waging a war of aggression - is punishable by deprivation of liberty for a term of ten to twenty years."
        the_af 3y ago
        Who admits to waging a war of aggression though? Putin is framing this as an act of defense, he says he is acting to prevent Russia's enemies from destroying it. When in modern times has an aggressor ever framed the aggression in terms different from a righteous defense?