5 ms·

Ketamine treatments help people, because ketamine is a dissociative drug. It makes you not feel your suffering, also makes you not feel the positive feelings. T

by 36933 3y ago

Ketamine treatments help people, because ketamine is a dissociative drug. It makes you not feel your suffering, also makes you not feel the positive feelings. That’s why you’re not eg doomscrolling. It doesn’t feel good for you anymore. If you’re not getting treatments regularly, you will be back to suffering in a few months likely. In my opinion, there are better alternatives and more effective treatments than living a life of disassociation.

uslic001 3y ago
Ketamine is no better than placebo for depression: https://www.science.org/content/article/ketamine-no-better-placebo-alleviating-depression-unusual-trial-finds?fbclid=IwAR1IKMooGy9lKaPP_wiPAoQjPQXJtEmKUSyvDz1E3JPMaSE8vzpdOFVBOG0#.ZGtgAjhzjUk.facebook https://www.science.org/content/article/ketamine-no-better-p...
- CapstanRoller 3y ago
  This is not peer reviewed, looked at only 40 people, and has dubious methodology.
valec 3y ago
this is not true at all. the dissociative effects only last a few hours. the clinical benefit is because ketamine stimulates neurogenesis in the mPFC and hippocampus, restoring plasticity lost in depressed patients. don't make unsubstantiated leaps :-)
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- 36933 3y ago
  Yes the immediate effects last for a few hours. I didn’t say otherwise. The current scientific literature paints a mixed picture of ketamine. While it can stimulate neurogenesis, there is a definite potential for neurotoxicity. Not to mention that there are no long term studies out there. There are countless people reporting being anhedonic after treatments. Only a few people have been reported to not relapse before 24 weeks. I’m not making unsubstantiated claims. Don’t accuse me of that, because you don’t like my answer.
  - CapstanRoller 3y ago
    >Only a few people have been reported to not relapse before 24 weeks. So what? Ketamine is a treatment, not a cure. Would you apply the same logic to insulin for T1 diabetes?
    - 36933 3y ago
      You are comparing apples to oranges my friend.
      - CapstanRoller 3y ago
        How so? We don't know of any cure for depression, but with ketamine we have an effective rapid treatment. Ketamine has a great therapeutic range, a well-understood side effect profile, and can bring a patient back from the brink of suicide in a matter of hours. It's also incredibly inexpensive to produce, on par with aspirin. Why shouldn't we use it?
        36933 3y ago
        That’s the thing. We don’t know a cure, but we know of people who were cured. We just don’t really know how or why, scientifically speaking. And as far as I know there was never someone getting cured from t1 diabetes. That’s what I meant by apples and oranges. Ketamine or suffering & death? Ketamine no question. I agree, but it’s not so black and white how you may perceive it. It might be ketamine or death for you, I don’t know. For me it was certainly. So sorry, if it is for you now. I’m not telling you it’s bad or that you shouldn’t do it. Do whatever you think is the best for you. I went through all of that and found other methods of treatment actually effective of solving the root causes of my suffering and not just the symptoms. Meditation, somatic experiencing and mdma therapy[1] are the main methods I found the most effective, in no particular order. I’m not looking to argue about your choice of treatment. If you want to share your experience or hear mine, give me a way to contact you. Have a good night/day. [1]https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-021-01336-3 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-021-01336-3
CapstanRoller 3y ago
This isn't true. I am not dissociated when not actively undergoing the treatment. If anything, the after-effects of ketamine treatment alleviate my lifelong dissociation and other symptoms depression and PTSD. Something about the induced dissociation "wraps around" and snaps people back into fully being present. Have you ever had ketamine treatment? Where are you getting these conclusions?
- 36933 3y ago
  Yes I did have two treatments. After the first treatment I really liked it and I thought I had my life back. All my debilitating symptoms were gone. Weeks after the second treatment I noticed that my depression and trauma is not gone. It just made me not constantly aware of it, if that makes sense. I was not clinically dissociated as well, just dissociated from the things that caused my suffering. I didn’t think that was a healthy way of living, so I stopped getting treatments. Luckily I found forms of treatments to actually heal after that. I’m incredibly glad I did. Ketamine didn’t heal me, my perspective just changed, which can be valuable though.
  - gopher_space 3y ago
    > Ketamine didn’t heal me, my perspective just changed I thought that was the entire point of the treatment. Is that not the case?
    - 36933 3y ago
      I don’t know it might be. I went in with the mindset of wanting it to help me end my suffering, not change my perspective. I think that’s the case for most people.
      - krageon 3y ago
        Your perspective is the suffering though, unless I am missing something? The whole thing with trauma response and all the various things that come from that is that different things have different effects on different people, because their perspectives are different. The treatments that work (CBT, EMDR, etc) also rely on changing your perspective of the event or your response to it.

by 36933 3y ago

uslic001 3y ago

Ketamine is no better than placebo for depression: https://www.science.org/content/article/ketamine-no-better-placebo-alleviating-depression-unusual-trial-finds?fbclid=IwAR1IKMooGy9lKaPP_wiPAoQjPQXJtEmKUSyvDz1E3JPMaSE8vzpdOFVBOG0#.ZGtgAjhzjUk.facebook https://www.science.org/content/article/ketamine-no-better-p...

CapstanRoller 3y ago
This is not peer reviewed, looked at only 40 people, and has dubious methodology.

valec 3y ago

this is not true at all. the dissociative effects only last a few hours. the clinical benefit is because ketamine stimulates neurogenesis in the mPFC and hippocampus, restoring plasticity lost in depressed patients. don't make unsubstantiated leaps :-)

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
36933 3y ago
Yes the immediate effects last for a few hours. I didn’t say otherwise. The current scientific literature paints a mixed picture of ketamine. While it can stimulate neurogenesis, there is a definite potential for neurotoxicity. Not to mention that there are no long term studies out there. There are countless people reporting being anhedonic after treatments. Only a few people have been reported to not relapse before 24 weeks. I’m not making unsubstantiated claims. Don’t accuse me of that, because you don’t like my answer.
- CapstanRoller 3y ago
  >Only a few people have been reported to not relapse before 24 weeks. So what? Ketamine is a treatment, not a cure. Would you apply the same logic to insulin for T1 diabetes?
  - 36933 3y ago
    You are comparing apples to oranges my friend.
    - CapstanRoller 3y ago
      How so? We don't know of any cure for depression, but with ketamine we have an effective rapid treatment. Ketamine has a great therapeutic range, a well-understood side effect profile, and can bring a patient back from the brink of suicide in a matter of hours. It's also incredibly inexpensive to produce, on par with aspirin. Why shouldn't we use it?
      - 36933 3y ago
        That’s the thing. We don’t know a cure, but we know of people who were cured. We just don’t really know how or why, scientifically speaking. And as far as I know there was never someone getting cured from t1 diabetes. That’s what I meant by apples and oranges. Ketamine or suffering & death? Ketamine no question. I agree, but it’s not so black and white how you may perceive it. It might be ketamine or death for you, I don’t know. For me it was certainly. So sorry, if it is for you now. I’m not telling you it’s bad or that you shouldn’t do it. Do whatever you think is the best for you. I went through all of that and found other methods of treatment actually effective of solving the root causes of my suffering and not just the symptoms. Meditation, somatic experiencing and mdma therapy[1] are the main methods I found the most effective, in no particular order. I’m not looking to argue about your choice of treatment. If you want to share your experience or hear mine, give me a way to contact you. Have a good night/day. [1]https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-021-01336-3 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-021-01336-3

CapstanRoller 3y ago

This isn't true. I am not dissociated when not actively undergoing the treatment. If anything, the after-effects of ketamine treatment alleviate my lifelong dissociation and other symptoms depression and PTSD. Something about the induced dissociation "wraps around" and snaps people back into fully being present. Have you ever had ketamine treatment? Where are you getting these conclusions?

36933 3y ago
Yes I did have two treatments. After the first treatment I really liked it and I thought I had my life back. All my debilitating symptoms were gone. Weeks after the second treatment I noticed that my depression and trauma is not gone. It just made me not constantly aware of it, if that makes sense. I was not clinically dissociated as well, just dissociated from the things that caused my suffering. I didn’t think that was a healthy way of living, so I stopped getting treatments. Luckily I found forms of treatments to actually heal after that. I’m incredibly glad I did. Ketamine didn’t heal me, my perspective just changed, which can be valuable though.
- gopher_space 3y ago
  > Ketamine didn’t heal me, my perspective just changed I thought that was the entire point of the treatment. Is that not the case?
  - 36933 3y ago
    I don’t know it might be. I went in with the mindset of wanting it to help me end my suffering, not change my perspective. I think that’s the case for most people.
    - krageon 3y ago
      Your perspective is the suffering though, unless I am missing something? The whole thing with trauma response and all the various things that come from that is that different things have different effects on different people, because their perspectives are different. The treatments that work (CBT, EMDR, etc) also rely on changing your perspective of the event or your response to it.