8 ms·

Getting ready to ship 13th Gen and announcing power saving Expansion Cards

113 points by Pasorrijer 3y ago

3by7 3y ago
Still not taking orders from Portugal, Spain, Italy...? :(
- purjolok 3y ago
  I wonder if regulation is partly to blame: "Due to 27 different regulations in the EU alone (and more in other non-EU-countries), the administrative burden for international e-commerce is huge. Other than packaging regulations in many countries, WEEE regulations do typically not have any minimum thresholds or exceptions for SMEs. Therefore, WEEE registration and recycling fees are required in every country (separately – even within the EU) when shipping internationally. This also goes for startups and small stores which have just started selling electronics in Europe. (The laws even apply before the first sale is made.)" https://www.ecosistant.eu/en/weee-directive/ https://www.ecosistant.eu/en/weee-directive/
  - leesalminen 3y ago
    When GDPR went into effect, our company had ~5 clients in the EU (out of thousands). It was cheaper to drop those 5 clients than attempt to even read and comply with the regulation. We weren’t even doing anything nefarious, it just wasn’t worth our time to spend any brainpower thinking about it.
    - Aachen 3y ago
      Haven't heard of the 1995 data regulation I suppose then, or that it's mostly common sense to tell what you do with other people's personal information, but sure, drop out of the entire market over this. I think the parent commenter was complaining about things that aren't EU-wide. This was and you're saying it's still not good enough
      - robertlagrant 3y ago
        Er, I like GDPR, and it was EU-wide, but each member still would have to write its own framework into its legal system to implement GDPR as it saw fit. Those frameworks are all different in their detail. E.g. Germany has the BDSG, and the UK has (had?) the DPA.
        OJFord 3y ago
        Has. HMG wants UK GDPR to be stronger than (yet also somehow 'compatible with') EU GDPR.
      - leesalminen 3y ago
        > or that it's mostly common sense to tell what you do with other people's personal information We had a very restrictive privacy policy. We never shared or sold any information with third parties. We contractually stated this. But that’s not enough for GDPR.
  - stonogo 3y ago
    Why can't Framework do business like this where an even smaller vendor like MNT got through with their Reform laptop?
  - ChuckNorris89 3y ago
    >I wonder if regulation is partly to blame: You mean the regulatory burden that the EU single market was made to fix but yet still exists?
    - purjolok 3y ago
      You got me
- tssk 3y ago
  I was waiting over one year for shipping to Czech Republic. Finally I solved it by buying over Germany with service that created virtual address there and reshipped to Czech Republic. Edit: I understand that for business especially non-european EU rules must be complicated. But seems to me that for the EU customer it works great.
- znpy 3y ago
  Iirc they’re supposed to start shipping to italy and spain this summer.
rubenv 3y ago
Really impressive that they provide instructions to solder the old cards up towards the new spec. Fully out of my range of talents, but does show they genuinely care about what they preach.
- qingcharles 3y ago
  This really impressed me. Can you imagine Dell or Apple doing this?
  - surteen 3y ago
    No, but I also can't imagine Apple shipping something that needed a bodge wire soldered in to make it work well. They do a lot more power consumption engineering than most PC companies and they operate on such a large scale that they'd have found out about a battery drain like this much sooner and could fix it in the production process.
    - coolgoose 3y ago
      The same Apple in which you had be careful which USB C port you used to not overheat?
      - ChuckNorris89 3y ago
        It's the customer's fault for using the wrong USB port obviously /s
    - viraptor 3y ago
      Yeah, it's not like they had any hardware defects like broken keyboards, power management issues, blank watch screens, recalled batteries, weirdly places antennas, etc... Oh wait they just ignore those until the problem gets large enough they get into news and need to start honouring the warranties.
    - OJFord 3y ago
      Oh, so the first Apple laptop had zero bugs, and nothing has been fixed since?
pianoben 3y ago
Man this company is killing it. Nice work, Framework team!
rcarr 3y ago
I wonder if they’ll ever make a tablet or tablet laptop hybrid
moooo99 3y ago
Framework is killing it and I absolutely love it. I have no need for a laptop right now, but if I ever buy another one, they'll definitely be at the top of my list. The only concern I have is with screen resolution. I'm using a MacBook and the screen resolution is an absolute blessing.
- schmorptron 3y ago
  The framework does 2256 x 1504, the 13,3 inch macbook pro does 2560 x 1600. Doesn't seem like that large of a difference, especially at that screen size.
  - Dunedan 3y ago
    For everybody curious, here is a comparison of the pixel densities: Framework 13": 200dpi MacBook Pro 13": 227dpi MacBook Pro 14": 254dpi
    - schmorptron 3y ago
      Oh wow, I didn't look at the 14 inch model. 50ppi does sound like a noticeable difference if you're used to it.
- screamin_jesus 3y ago
  same here, I can't justify upgrading for a few more years, but definitely planning on framework for my next laptop, what they're doing is really cool
humanistbot 3y ago
I'm using this to yet again make my semi-annual plea for someone to please make a framework-compatible keyboard with a Thinkpad-style trackpoint. That's the only thing keeping me on Lenovo at this point, decades of ingrained muscle memory. The patent is expired (from 1997 and 1998) and it'd be huge!
- znpy 3y ago
  As a fellow thinkpad user, i feel you. However, given the sad state of modern thinkpads (soldered ram, nothing’s upgradeable etc etc) i think you (we?) should really reconsider if the trackpoint is worth the hassle. I’m certainly reconsidering… I’m waiting for amd and 16” version reviews.
- mkelly1993 3y ago
  I'm in the same boat. I was considering just buying a standalone Lenovo Thinkpad keyboard and using it with the Framework laptop, but kind of defeats the purpose of a laptop. Sadly, I estimate we're in such a tiny minority it simply makes no market sense for anyone to cater to us.
  - tobz1000 3y ago
    A small but passionate minority - given framework's modularity, it's not inconceivable that someone else will manufacture and sell a small batch of compatible keyboards and touchpads with buttons.
- OJFord 3y ago
  It's funny, I actually have a Thinkpad (my work machine), and never use that thing. Just never got into it. I like the positioning in theory I suppose, just haven't accustomed to its location or acceleration, and the trackpad isn't so far away as to make me. But what do you do at regular desktops/with a docked laptop? Mice bother me more, I've been looking into getting an Apple trackpad (to use with Linux) so it's a pad not a mouse but also so that I can put it in laptop-esque positioning, which seems more ergonomic to me, from primarily using the keyboard. (Not as much as a ThinkPad nipple of course, but as above I've never grown used to it, and I don't think any such keyboards exist anyway.)
Rebelgecko 3y ago
Can't wait for the 12th gen beta firmware to finally be released, I've been holding off for the ~6 months its been in beta because it sounds like a failed install can brick 2 of your USB ports
loufe 3y ago
I would love to go the framework route, but they need to offer screen options. We are in the OLED age, why not offer the option?
- prophesi 3y ago
  Some crazy person modified their Framework to use the Acer Spin 713 OLED display[0], but I really hope down the road there's an OLED option to purchase directly from their Marketplace. I'm betting the Framework 16 will have it, but there still hasn't been too much revealed about it. The speakers are also disappointing; you'll definitely want to experiment with different sound equalizers. On Fedora, I'm using this Advanced Auto Gain preset[1] with PipeWire/EasyEffects. [0] https://community.frame.work/t/framework-laptop-alternative-screens/17290/30 https://community.frame.work/t/framework-laptop-alternative-... [1] https://github.com/JackHack96/EasyEffects-Presets https://github.com/JackHack96/EasyEffects-Presets
thebitstick 3y ago
I love what the company is doing and I really want to support their business, but I just can't get away from macOS. Hackintoshes aren't super viable anymore, so I have a pie-in-the-sky hope that there will be a viable general arm64 chip for laptops that one day Framework could adopt for Windows-on-ARM and Linux, and that someone will get macOS working on it.
colinng 3y ago
Neat! An upgradable laptop made with high quality materials! I know nobody asked for my opinion, but I saw the [Ethernet card](https://frame.work/ca/en/products/ethernet-expansion-card https://frame.work/ca/en/products/ethernet-expansion-card) and was a bit sad. How about something like 3Com XJACK to keep it small and without protrusions when travelling? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/XJACK https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/XJACK Or the spring-loaded swivel down port from Lenovo? https://www.reviewgeek.com/p/uploads/2021/05/c9c310c4.jpg https://www.reviewgeek.com/p/uploads/2021/05/c9c310c4.jpg That said, I’m not their target audience…
- tenacious_tuna 3y ago
  I've personally never had one of those hinged ethernet jacks reliably work. Or, they do, but the link is incredibly unstable. I just settled on having a thick enough laptop to support a 'native' full-size jack in my last purchase cycle, but I could see the Framework style being very nice for how little I find myself using it: that way when you _need_ a full size jack, you have one that's stable. I suspect most people these days have hardwired networking to a laptop dock, and then thunderbolt from there to the laptop anyway.
StimDeck 3y ago
[dead]

113 points by Pasorrijer 3y ago

3by7 3y ago

Still not taking orders from Portugal, Spain, Italy...? :(

purjolok 3y ago
I wonder if regulation is partly to blame: "Due to 27 different regulations in the EU alone (and more in other non-EU-countries), the administrative burden for international e-commerce is huge. Other than packaging regulations in many countries, WEEE regulations do typically not have any minimum thresholds or exceptions for SMEs. Therefore, WEEE registration and recycling fees are required in every country (separately – even within the EU) when shipping internationally. This also goes for startups and small stores which have just started selling electronics in Europe. (The laws even apply before the first sale is made.)" https://www.ecosistant.eu/en/weee-directive/ https://www.ecosistant.eu/en/weee-directive/
- leesalminen 3y ago
  When GDPR went into effect, our company had ~5 clients in the EU (out of thousands). It was cheaper to drop those 5 clients than attempt to even read and comply with the regulation. We weren’t even doing anything nefarious, it just wasn’t worth our time to spend any brainpower thinking about it.
  - Aachen 3y ago
    Haven't heard of the 1995 data regulation I suppose then, or that it's mostly common sense to tell what you do with other people's personal information, but sure, drop out of the entire market over this. I think the parent commenter was complaining about things that aren't EU-wide. This was and you're saying it's still not good enough
    - robertlagrant 3y ago
      Er, I like GDPR, and it was EU-wide, but each member still would have to write its own framework into its legal system to implement GDPR as it saw fit. Those frameworks are all different in their detail. E.g. Germany has the BDSG, and the UK has (had?) the DPA.
      - OJFord 3y ago
        Has. HMG wants UK GDPR to be stronger than (yet also somehow 'compatible with') EU GDPR.
    - leesalminen 3y ago
      > or that it's mostly common sense to tell what you do with other people's personal information We had a very restrictive privacy policy. We never shared or sold any information with third parties. We contractually stated this. But that’s not enough for GDPR.
- stonogo 3y ago
  Why can't Framework do business like this where an even smaller vendor like MNT got through with their Reform laptop?
- ChuckNorris89 3y ago
  >I wonder if regulation is partly to blame: You mean the regulatory burden that the EU single market was made to fix but yet still exists?
  - purjolok 3y ago
    You got me
tssk 3y ago
I was waiting over one year for shipping to Czech Republic. Finally I solved it by buying over Germany with service that created virtual address there and reshipped to Czech Republic. Edit: I understand that for business especially non-european EU rules must be complicated. But seems to me that for the EU customer it works great.
znpy 3y ago
Iirc they’re supposed to start shipping to italy and spain this summer.

rubenv 3y ago

Really impressive that they provide instructions to solder the old cards up towards the new spec. Fully out of my range of talents, but does show they genuinely care about what they preach.

qingcharles 3y ago
This really impressed me. Can you imagine Dell or Apple doing this?
- surteen 3y ago
  No, but I also can't imagine Apple shipping something that needed a bodge wire soldered in to make it work well. They do a lot more power consumption engineering than most PC companies and they operate on such a large scale that they'd have found out about a battery drain like this much sooner and could fix it in the production process.
  - coolgoose 3y ago
    The same Apple in which you had be careful which USB C port you used to not overheat?
    - ChuckNorris89 3y ago
      It's the customer's fault for using the wrong USB port obviously /s
  - viraptor 3y ago
    Yeah, it's not like they had any hardware defects like broken keyboards, power management issues, blank watch screens, recalled batteries, weirdly places antennas, etc... Oh wait they just ignore those until the problem gets large enough they get into news and need to start honouring the warranties.
  - OJFord 3y ago
    Oh, so the first Apple laptop had zero bugs, and nothing has been fixed since?

pianoben 3y ago

Man this company is killing it. Nice work, Framework team!

rcarr 3y ago

I wonder if they’ll ever make a tablet or tablet laptop hybrid

moooo99 3y ago

Framework is killing it and I absolutely love it. I have no need for a laptop right now, but if I ever buy another one, they'll definitely be at the top of my list. The only concern I have is with screen resolution. I'm using a MacBook and the screen resolution is an absolute blessing.

schmorptron 3y ago
The framework does 2256 x 1504, the 13,3 inch macbook pro does 2560 x 1600. Doesn't seem like that large of a difference, especially at that screen size.
- Dunedan 3y ago
  For everybody curious, here is a comparison of the pixel densities: Framework 13": 200dpi MacBook Pro 13": 227dpi MacBook Pro 14": 254dpi
  - schmorptron 3y ago
    Oh wow, I didn't look at the 14 inch model. 50ppi does sound like a noticeable difference if you're used to it.
screamin_jesus 3y ago
same here, I can't justify upgrading for a few more years, but definitely planning on framework for my next laptop, what they're doing is really cool

humanistbot 3y ago

I'm using this to yet again make my semi-annual plea for someone to please make a framework-compatible keyboard with a Thinkpad-style trackpoint. That's the only thing keeping me on Lenovo at this point, decades of ingrained muscle memory. The patent is expired (from 1997 and 1998) and it'd be huge!

znpy 3y ago
As a fellow thinkpad user, i feel you. However, given the sad state of modern thinkpads (soldered ram, nothing’s upgradeable etc etc) i think you (we?) should really reconsider if the trackpoint is worth the hassle. I’m certainly reconsidering… I’m waiting for amd and 16” version reviews.
mkelly1993 3y ago
I'm in the same boat. I was considering just buying a standalone Lenovo Thinkpad keyboard and using it with the Framework laptop, but kind of defeats the purpose of a laptop. Sadly, I estimate we're in such a tiny minority it simply makes no market sense for anyone to cater to us.
- tobz1000 3y ago
  A small but passionate minority - given framework's modularity, it's not inconceivable that someone else will manufacture and sell a small batch of compatible keyboards and touchpads with buttons.
OJFord 3y ago
It's funny, I actually have a Thinkpad (my work machine), and never use that thing. Just never got into it. I like the positioning in theory I suppose, just haven't accustomed to its location or acceleration, and the trackpad isn't so far away as to make me. But what do you do at regular desktops/with a docked laptop? Mice bother me more, I've been looking into getting an Apple trackpad (to use with Linux) so it's a pad not a mouse but also so that I can put it in laptop-esque positioning, which seems more ergonomic to me, from primarily using the keyboard. (Not as much as a ThinkPad nipple of course, but as above I've never grown used to it, and I don't think any such keyboards exist anyway.)

Rebelgecko 3y ago

Can't wait for the 12th gen beta firmware to finally be released, I've been holding off for the ~6 months its been in beta because it sounds like a failed install can brick 2 of your USB ports

loufe 3y ago

I would love to go the framework route, but they need to offer screen options. We are in the OLED age, why not offer the option?

prophesi 3y ago
Some crazy person modified their Framework to use the Acer Spin 713 OLED display[0], but I really hope down the road there's an OLED option to purchase directly from their Marketplace. I'm betting the Framework 16 will have it, but there still hasn't been too much revealed about it. The speakers are also disappointing; you'll definitely want to experiment with different sound equalizers. On Fedora, I'm using this Advanced Auto Gain preset[1] with PipeWire/EasyEffects. [0] https://community.frame.work/t/framework-laptop-alternative-screens/17290/30 https://community.frame.work/t/framework-laptop-alternative-... [1] https://github.com/JackHack96/EasyEffects-Presets https://github.com/JackHack96/EasyEffects-Presets

thebitstick 3y ago

I love what the company is doing and I really want to support their business, but I just can't get away from macOS. Hackintoshes aren't super viable anymore, so I have a pie-in-the-sky hope that there will be a viable general arm64 chip for laptops that one day Framework could adopt for Windows-on-ARM and Linux, and that someone will get macOS working on it.

colinng 3y ago

Neat! An upgradable laptop made with high quality materials! I know nobody asked for my opinion, but I saw the [Ethernet card](https://frame.work/ca/en/products/ethernet-expansion-card https://frame.work/ca/en/products/ethernet-expansion-card) and was a bit sad. How about something like 3Com XJACK to keep it small and without protrusions when travelling? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/XJACK https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/XJACK Or the spring-loaded swivel down port from Lenovo? https://www.reviewgeek.com/p/uploads/2021/05/c9c310c4.jpg https://www.reviewgeek.com/p/uploads/2021/05/c9c310c4.jpg That said, I’m not their target audience…

tenacious_tuna 3y ago
I've personally never had one of those hinged ethernet jacks reliably work. Or, they do, but the link is incredibly unstable. I just settled on having a thick enough laptop to support a 'native' full-size jack in my last purchase cycle, but I could see the Framework style being very nice for how little I find myself using it: that way when you _need_ a full size jack, you have one that's stable. I suspect most people these days have hardwired networking to a laptop dock, and then thunderbolt from there to the laptop anyway.

StimDeck 3y ago

[dead]