7 ms·

I think it is actually selfish because you were given the greatest gift of all, life, and you should "pay it forward".

saiojd 3y ago
Not really selfish at all when you consider that the Earth's population cannot grow infinitely. Some people have kids, others don't, not a big deal.
- hsbauauvhabzb 3y ago
  That’s assuming the human race naturally reducing or eventually dying out is considered selfish in the first place. We really place too much longevity of humans while extinguishing animals for sport.
- pokstad 3y ago
  That’s not necessarily true. The biggest resource constraint on the earth we can’t live without is food and we are extremely inefficient at producing it. Right now it takes large fields of biological crops, but the future might solve that problem.
  - saiojd 3y ago
    That's a good point. The more I think about it the more what I said was a way of rationalizing not agreeing with the parent comment. Even if there were no ressource constrains it still doesn't feel selfish to me not to have children.
- antisthenes 3y ago
  Every couple can have 2 kids and it would keep the population constant. In fact everyone having just 2 isn't enough, it has to be slightly higher, even with modern medicine.
  - pixl97 3y ago
    That would be assuming that we've not already overshot sustainable population. With every biodiversity marker pointing that we're in the middle of a mass extinction, it really does seem like that may be the case.
jfengel 3y ago
I am paying it forward. Many people will live better lives because of me. The fact that they share 99.99% of my genes rather than 99.999% is not my main concern.
eyelidlessness 3y ago
I didn’t ask for the gift and I don’t owe anyone anything for it. If you want to treat life as some kind of exchange, you at least need consent from the parties to it.
- mensetmanusman 3y ago
  Sounds like a miserable point of view…
  - eyelidlessness 3y ago
    I’m happy that I’m under no obligation to procreate, nor to raise children I don’t want. What’s miserable about that?
gumby 3y ago
I don’t understand. You should have as many kids as you possibly can (à la Monty Python) to provide the “gift” as widely as possible? Or you owe other people (mostly ppl you don’t know) the existence of a child for some reason?
Teever 3y ago
I've always been puzzled by the 'its so selfish to not have kids' idea. Like where does that come from? How did you come to that conclusion, was it something you came to one day after careful consideration or was it something you heard one day and just started saying because everyone else was saying it? I don't mean that to be rude, I'm genuinely curious. Like what's so selfish about it? If Norman Borlaug or Frederick Banting never had children but they otherwise did the work that they did, would you consider them selfish? Is someone who has 10 kids in poverty less selfish than someone not poor who only has 1? What's the ideal number of children to minimize selfishness?
- clnq 3y ago
  I don't hold a firm stance on whether choosing not to have children is selfish, though I tend to believe it isn't. Nonetheless, the most compelling arguments suggesting that it could be selfish include: - ending the family lineage, despite your ancestors' efforts to preserve it; - relying on society for support in old age; - failing to contribute to the growth of a culture, society, nation, advancement or humanity; - depriving yourself or your partner of the potential fulfilment found in raising children; - and disobeying a religious divine command to procreate, possibly resulting in negative consequences for humanity prescribed by religious beliefs. Since these arguments are circumstantial, hinging on factors like religion, culture, technology, and taxation, their strength varies among individuals. For instance, in cultures valuing social cohesion and unity through religion (e.g., Polish culture), these arguments may carry more weight than in cultures prioritizing free choice and individualism (e.g., Western culture and values). In the West, some might argue that pressuring others to have children is selfish, as: - there may be personal gain involved, such as parents wanting their children to have kids for their own enjoyment or to pass on their values; - it disrespects personal autonomy and choice of would-be parents; - it exacerbates future environmental and population issues for short-term personal happiness or fulfilment; - it ignores a child's right to a good quality of life in cases where parents might struggle to provide it; - it diverts resources from other families in need. However, the strength of these arguments also varies among individuals. For example, someone who firmly believes that God prescribed procreation to humanity and that it will ultimately benefit everyone might not find the arguments against pressuring others to have children convincing. There is also often a significant amount of hand-waving on both sides of these arguments. For instance, some individuals defend their stance by suggesting that society should adapt to accommodate their position (e.g., addressing societal and ecological issues related to procreation through means other than discouraging procreation). Numerous related arguments inevitably also get invoked in these discussions, like whether and in what circumstances we should advise others on having children. For example, some argue that if prospective parents have a high likelihood of passing on a hereditary disease, they should refrain from procreating. This concept, known as eugenics, is controversial. Critics argue that it restricts bodily freedom and carries negative historical connotations, while proponents claim that it benefits society by easing resource scarcity and reducing the ecological strain on the planet. There are so many different aspects and strong opinions involved in the question of whether it's selfish not to have kids that it's really difficult to come up with a definitive answer. I am not convinced that the position that not having children is selfish is indefensible or stupid, even if I personally do not agree with it.
nunez 3y ago
What does that even mean in this context? How is having kids you don't want "paying it forward?"

Not really selfish at all when you consider that the Earth's population cannot grow infinitely. Some people have kids, others don't, not a big deal.

hsbauauvhabzb 3y ago
That’s assuming the human race naturally reducing or eventually dying out is considered selfish in the first place. We really place too much longevity of humans while extinguishing animals for sport.
pokstad 3y ago
That’s not necessarily true. The biggest resource constraint on the earth we can’t live without is food and we are extremely inefficient at producing it. Right now it takes large fields of biological crops, but the future might solve that problem.
- saiojd 3y ago
  That's a good point. The more I think about it the more what I said was a way of rationalizing not agreeing with the parent comment. Even if there were no ressource constrains it still doesn't feel selfish to me not to have children.
antisthenes 3y ago
Every couple can have 2 kids and it would keep the population constant. In fact everyone having just 2 isn't enough, it has to be slightly higher, even with modern medicine.
- pixl97 3y ago
  That would be assuming that we've not already overshot sustainable population. With every biodiversity marker pointing that we're in the middle of a mass extinction, it really does seem like that may be the case.

jfengel 3y ago

I am paying it forward. Many people will live better lives because of me. The fact that they share 99.99% of my genes rather than 99.999% is not my main concern.

eyelidlessness 3y ago

I didn’t ask for the gift and I don’t owe anyone anything for it. If you want to treat life as some kind of exchange, you at least need consent from the parties to it.

mensetmanusman 3y ago
Sounds like a miserable point of view…
- eyelidlessness 3y ago
  I’m happy that I’m under no obligation to procreate, nor to raise children I don’t want. What’s miserable about that?

gumby 3y ago

I don’t understand. You should have as many kids as you possibly can (à la Monty Python) to provide the “gift” as widely as possible? Or you owe other people (mostly ppl you don’t know) the existence of a child for some reason?

Teever 3y ago

I've always been puzzled by the 'its so selfish to not have kids' idea. Like where does that come from? How did you come to that conclusion, was it something you came to one day after careful consideration or was it something you heard one day and just started saying because everyone else was saying it? I don't mean that to be rude, I'm genuinely curious. Like what's so selfish about it? If Norman Borlaug or Frederick Banting never had children but they otherwise did the work that they did, would you consider them selfish? Is someone who has 10 kids in poverty less selfish than someone not poor who only has 1? What's the ideal number of children to minimize selfishness?

clnq 3y ago
I don't hold a firm stance on whether choosing not to have children is selfish, though I tend to believe it isn't. Nonetheless, the most compelling arguments suggesting that it could be selfish include: - ending the family lineage, despite your ancestors' efforts to preserve it; - relying on society for support in old age; - failing to contribute to the growth of a culture, society, nation, advancement or humanity; - depriving yourself or your partner of the potential fulfilment found in raising children; - and disobeying a religious divine command to procreate, possibly resulting in negative consequences for humanity prescribed by religious beliefs. Since these arguments are circumstantial, hinging on factors like religion, culture, technology, and taxation, their strength varies among individuals. For instance, in cultures valuing social cohesion and unity through religion (e.g., Polish culture), these arguments may carry more weight than in cultures prioritizing free choice and individualism (e.g., Western culture and values). In the West, some might argue that pressuring others to have children is selfish, as: - there may be personal gain involved, such as parents wanting their children to have kids for their own enjoyment or to pass on their values; - it disrespects personal autonomy and choice of would-be parents; - it exacerbates future environmental and population issues for short-term personal happiness or fulfilment; - it ignores a child's right to a good quality of life in cases where parents might struggle to provide it; - it diverts resources from other families in need. However, the strength of these arguments also varies among individuals. For example, someone who firmly believes that God prescribed procreation to humanity and that it will ultimately benefit everyone might not find the arguments against pressuring others to have children convincing. There is also often a significant amount of hand-waving on both sides of these arguments. For instance, some individuals defend their stance by suggesting that society should adapt to accommodate their position (e.g., addressing societal and ecological issues related to procreation through means other than discouraging procreation). Numerous related arguments inevitably also get invoked in these discussions, like whether and in what circumstances we should advise others on having children. For example, some argue that if prospective parents have a high likelihood of passing on a hereditary disease, they should refrain from procreating. This concept, known as eugenics, is controversial. Critics argue that it restricts bodily freedom and carries negative historical connotations, while proponents claim that it benefits society by easing resource scarcity and reducing the ecological strain on the planet. There are so many different aspects and strong opinions involved in the question of whether it's selfish not to have kids that it's really difficult to come up with a definitive answer. I am not convinced that the position that not having children is selfish is indefensible or stupid, even if I personally do not agree with it.

nunez 3y ago

What does that even mean in this context? How is having kids you don't want "paying it forward?"