7 ms·

also running laps around ev

sneak 3y ago
And yet somehow people believe he won't be able to hire a team to operate and scale an already-extant shitposting website. The cognitive dissonance is pretty amazing.
- _hypx 3y ago
  This is why people keep on insisting that large scale accounting fraud is happening at all of his companies. Every time Musk does something within our "field of expertise" he looks like a buffoon. But magically, he's suppose to be a genius outside of it. That does not add up.
  - maximus-decimus 3y ago
    Our field of expertise is to make a company like Twitter profitable?
sofixa 3y ago
That's no longer true, pretty much any big car manufacturer outside of Toyota has caught up. Not only that, they provide much wider variety of vehicles (from the Renault Zoe and Dacia Spring all the way to massive pickups like the Ford F-150 Lightning).
- chroma 3y ago
  In the US, Tesla sells 2x more EVs than all the other manufacturers combined.[1] In Europe, Tesla is the most popular EV manufacturer, though Volkswagen is very close behind. Until April of 2022, Tesla was paying a 10% tariff on their Model 3/Ys in the EU. Now that they have a factory in Berlin, they're reducing prices and sales are growing faster than any other manufacturer.[2] 1. https://www.cnbc.com/2023/04/04/gm-overtakes-ford-in-us-ev-sales-still-trails-tesla.html https://www.cnbc.com/2023/04/04/gm-overtakes-ford-in-us-ev-s... 2. https://www.barrons.com/articles/tesla-price-cuts-stock-europe-sales-b4db6599 https://www.barrons.com/articles/tesla-price-cuts-stock-euro...
- bequanna 3y ago
  Check the margins. Tesla actually makes money on EV. Tesla could lower prices to undercut most of their competition and still make money.
  - moffkalast 3y ago
    Maybe then the prices would actually match their build quality.
    - throwaway50614 3y ago
      Tesla has the lowest prices of all EVs and also the best quality. Not even Mercedes or Audi EVs are better in any metric including build quality and safety, regardless of the absurd price.
      - moffkalast 3y ago
        Some brief Google searches: > The 2023 Nissan Leaf has a base MSRP of $27,800 > Volkswagen e-Golf SE CVT, 5 seats: $31,895 (OTR) > The 2022 Hyundai Ioniq hybrid has a $23,600 starting price, which is among the lowest in the Hybrid Cars class > 2022 Chevrolet Bolt EUV should remain close to the current model that ranges from $28,795 to $33,295 (with destination). > The price range for the Renault Zoe varies based on the trim level you choose. Starting at $33,990 and going to $40,480 for the latest year the model was manufactured. > Currently, the Rear-Wheel Drive trim of the Tesla Model 3 starts at an MSRP of $40,240 with zero upgrades Riiiight. Totally the lowest prices. Note that outside the US market they also tack on import/customs fees, making them even more overpriced. They may be pretty good at not rolling over, but so is any other EV with a low mounted battery. As for the build quality, the panel line jokes are basically popular culture by now. I'm sure legacy manufacturers can at least build a car body to spec. And include things like dials and buttons, which apparently aren't cost effective enough to Tesla's liking for the Model 3.
- panick21_ 3y ago
  Yeah by listing models, but based on actual numbers of BEV sold, Tesla is way ahead and still growing fast. And unlike almost all of the others, Tesla is making money on EV. Ford for example is losing 100s of millions on their EV business. This quarter they had a negative margin of 102% while selling 3% as many cars as Tesla.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
- zpeti 3y ago
  Except ford is losing a ton of money on EVs. I think yesterday a report came out their margins are -44% on EVs. While they might be selling some EVs, they’re pretty far from what Tesla is doing as a business.
  - 0zemp2c 3y ago
    Ford and GM can't ever follow through on their own BS and become "electric only" What is GM's cash cow? Pickups and the Tahoe/Yukon/Suburban/Escalade platform...pretty much the polar opposite of "environmentally conscious" products Ford? Same thing, monster F150s These companies aren't killing their cash cows Indeed, I expect both companies to dramatically tone down the rhetoric on EVs soon and just refer to them as "alternatives" Or even worse, start PR campaigns highlighting the inconveniences (charging times etc) of EVs
  - misiti3780 3y ago
    Im not saying Tesla will always be the leader, but anyone who says they're not now just needs to try to take a long road trip in a mach-e vs a model-y. It will be completely clear who is winning in EVs, from comfortable through the technology and supercharging.

And yet somehow people believe he won't be able to hire a team to operate and scale an already-extant shitposting website. The cognitive dissonance is pretty amazing.

_hypx 3y ago
This is why people keep on insisting that large scale accounting fraud is happening at all of his companies. Every time Musk does something within our "field of expertise" he looks like a buffoon. But magically, he's suppose to be a genius outside of it. That does not add up.
- maximus-decimus 3y ago
  Our field of expertise is to make a company like Twitter profitable?

sofixa 3y ago

That's no longer true, pretty much any big car manufacturer outside of Toyota has caught up. Not only that, they provide much wider variety of vehicles (from the Renault Zoe and Dacia Spring all the way to massive pickups like the Ford F-150 Lightning).

chroma 3y ago
In the US, Tesla sells 2x more EVs than all the other manufacturers combined.[1] In Europe, Tesla is the most popular EV manufacturer, though Volkswagen is very close behind. Until April of 2022, Tesla was paying a 10% tariff on their Model 3/Ys in the EU. Now that they have a factory in Berlin, they're reducing prices and sales are growing faster than any other manufacturer.[2] 1. https://www.cnbc.com/2023/04/04/gm-overtakes-ford-in-us-ev-sales-still-trails-tesla.html https://www.cnbc.com/2023/04/04/gm-overtakes-ford-in-us-ev-s... 2. https://www.barrons.com/articles/tesla-price-cuts-stock-europe-sales-b4db6599 https://www.barrons.com/articles/tesla-price-cuts-stock-euro...
bequanna 3y ago
Check the margins. Tesla actually makes money on EV. Tesla could lower prices to undercut most of their competition and still make money.
- moffkalast 3y ago
  Maybe then the prices would actually match their build quality.
  - throwaway50614 3y ago
    Tesla has the lowest prices of all EVs and also the best quality. Not even Mercedes or Audi EVs are better in any metric including build quality and safety, regardless of the absurd price.
    - moffkalast 3y ago
      Some brief Google searches: > The 2023 Nissan Leaf has a base MSRP of $27,800 > Volkswagen e-Golf SE CVT, 5 seats: $31,895 (OTR) > The 2022 Hyundai Ioniq hybrid has a $23,600 starting price, which is among the lowest in the Hybrid Cars class > 2022 Chevrolet Bolt EUV should remain close to the current model that ranges from $28,795 to $33,295 (with destination). > The price range for the Renault Zoe varies based on the trim level you choose. Starting at $33,990 and going to $40,480 for the latest year the model was manufactured. > Currently, the Rear-Wheel Drive trim of the Tesla Model 3 starts at an MSRP of $40,240 with zero upgrades Riiiight. Totally the lowest prices. Note that outside the US market they also tack on import/customs fees, making them even more overpriced. They may be pretty good at not rolling over, but so is any other EV with a low mounted battery. As for the build quality, the panel line jokes are basically popular culture by now. I'm sure legacy manufacturers can at least build a car body to spec. And include things like dials and buttons, which apparently aren't cost effective enough to Tesla's liking for the Model 3.
panick21_ 3y ago
Yeah by listing models, but based on actual numbers of BEV sold, Tesla is way ahead and still growing fast. And unlike almost all of the others, Tesla is making money on EV. Ford for example is losing 100s of millions on their EV business. This quarter they had a negative margin of 102% while selling 3% as many cars as Tesla.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
zpeti 3y ago
Except ford is losing a ton of money on EVs. I think yesterday a report came out their margins are -44% on EVs. While they might be selling some EVs, they’re pretty far from what Tesla is doing as a business.
- 0zemp2c 3y ago
  Ford and GM can't ever follow through on their own BS and become "electric only" What is GM's cash cow? Pickups and the Tahoe/Yukon/Suburban/Escalade platform...pretty much the polar opposite of "environmentally conscious" products Ford? Same thing, monster F150s These companies aren't killing their cash cows Indeed, I expect both companies to dramatically tone down the rhetoric on EVs soon and just refer to them as "alternatives" Or even worse, start PR campaigns highlighting the inconveniences (charging times etc) of EVs
- misiti3780 3y ago
  Im not saying Tesla will always be the leader, but anyone who says they're not now just needs to try to take a long road trip in a mach-e vs a model-y. It will be completely clear who is winning in EVs, from comfortable through the technology and supercharging.