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Apparently with the Ryzen processor, the slots are limited: "The Framework Laptop 13 with Ryzen™ 7040 Series processors has two fully capable USB4 ports, with t

Apparently with the Ryzen processor, the slots are limited: "The Framework Laptop 13 with Ryzen™ 7040 Series processors has two fully capable USB4 ports, with the back left and back right Expansion Cards slots. The front left Expansion Card slot can handle both USB 3.2 and DisplayPort Alt Mode, while the front right Expansion Card can use USB 3.2. This does mean there is one Expansion Card slot that can't support the HDMI or DisplayPort Expansion Cards, and most OS's will provide a warning if you forget. You can charge your Framework Laptop through any of the four Expansion Cards as well.". This is borderline a deal breaker for me.

TOMDM 3y ago
That's pretty rough, one of the great things about the Framework was being able to treat all ports the same. Is there any explenation on why they couldn't achieve this with AMD's new chips? I'm sure they would have supported that if they were able to.
- mfer 3y ago
  It has to do with what the chips can support. Compare the AMD USB channels [1] with the Intel Thunderbold channels [2]. Intel has more channels for motherboard/system manufacturers to work with. [1] https://www.techpowerup.com/cpu-specs/ryzen-7-7840u.c3212#gallery-2 https://www.techpowerup.com/cpu-specs/ryzen-7-7840u.c3212#ga... [2] https://www.techpowerup.com/cpu-specs/core-i7-1370p.c3055#gallery-2 https://www.techpowerup.com/cpu-specs/core-i7-1370p.c3055#ga...
  - rektide 3y ago
    It's such a pity AMD revolutionized bandwidth & interconnectivity on Epyc (128 lanes PCIe) , but has left consumers hanging. Threadripper HDET was 64 lanes (the Pro really was a full Epyc, 128 lanes, 8 channel memory) but now Threadripper is gone. Meanwhile desktop & mobile have been so capped, at 20 - 24 lanes, right where we were. The Thunderbolt 4 abilities of Intel chips is just stunning. 160Gbps of connectivity, usable for host to host connectivity... I wish AMD were trying to catch up here, wouldnt compromise their lead by being so far behind here.
maztaim 3y ago
What are you expecting to run off all four slots that makes that a dealbreaker?
- rektide 3y ago
  Expect the unexpected. It doesn't have to be a rational known ask. We are Hackers. We want to be ready for whatever. That day when there's a 4 screen display wall? Ready. Connecting to a thunderbolt NAS, a display, a desktop, and our friends laptop? Ready. "What is the use case" is the deadening soul sucking most un Hackerly thing to ask. Computers are amazing general purpose machines & we celebrate their flexible utility. We don't know where flexibility always leads but we value it. We value open systems, open possibilities, open frontiers, not being bounded. Edit: based on the voting, I guess only some of us on HN are Hackers! I also have example use cases too, to be constructive, but guess that's not enough for the cynics.
  - ior4uiofrjnev 3y ago
    A "hacker" is someone who makes something do what it wasn't intended to do. Plugging a high-end laptop into the correct number of monitors is not hacking. Maybe stick to Intel chipsets if you must have 4 screens. Or maybe cover over the 4th port, and pretend you have 3 fully-functional ports?
    - rektide 3y ago
      That's a pretty good definition. It think there's more an element of being able to pull off the not forseen. A good code hacker isn't exactly defying computer architecture to extract their wins; they're finding brilliant solutions & cobbling together interesting systems that happen to meet the needs. I think AMD needs the pressure. 4x Thunderbolt 4 is amazing. AMD offering 2x USB 4 is such a massive downgrade. Just a shake of the head & saying "go buy Intel" as if this is some natural expected unnoteworthy situation doesn't cut it for me.
      - tracker1 3y ago
dathinab 3y ago
it sounds bad but it's pretty common in any multi USB-C port laptop and most times the intuitive port usage will anyway be the right one Like most external devices don't benefit in a notivable degree from USB-4 over USB-3.2. The most common exceptions are expanders, docks, monitors with integrated docks, eGPUs and similar. But most of the you would normally anyway prefer on the back ports to get the cables out of the way. Where the front ports are more often used for input devices, usb disks and similar. But they very very often yield the same practical performance on USB-3.2 and USB-4 (not always, but _really_ often). So yes for some people which want 4 USB-4 port or 2 USB-4 ports and a HDMI port and a charging port and are not okay with the charging cable being on the front right port. But the huge majority of people will not care. And there are limitations with what the different laptop CPUs can support so it's not that they could just have magically added additional USB-4 ports or give DP support to all ports.

TOMDM 3y ago

That's pretty rough, one of the great things about the Framework was being able to treat all ports the same. Is there any explenation on why they couldn't achieve this with AMD's new chips? I'm sure they would have supported that if they were able to.

mfer 3y ago
It has to do with what the chips can support. Compare the AMD USB channels [1] with the Intel Thunderbold channels [2]. Intel has more channels for motherboard/system manufacturers to work with. [1] https://www.techpowerup.com/cpu-specs/ryzen-7-7840u.c3212#gallery-2 https://www.techpowerup.com/cpu-specs/ryzen-7-7840u.c3212#ga... [2] https://www.techpowerup.com/cpu-specs/core-i7-1370p.c3055#gallery-2 https://www.techpowerup.com/cpu-specs/core-i7-1370p.c3055#ga...
- rektide 3y ago
  It's such a pity AMD revolutionized bandwidth & interconnectivity on Epyc (128 lanes PCIe) , but has left consumers hanging. Threadripper HDET was 64 lanes (the Pro really was a full Epyc, 128 lanes, 8 channel memory) but now Threadripper is gone. Meanwhile desktop & mobile have been so capped, at 20 - 24 lanes, right where we were. The Thunderbolt 4 abilities of Intel chips is just stunning. 160Gbps of connectivity, usable for host to host connectivity... I wish AMD were trying to catch up here, wouldnt compromise their lead by being so far behind here.

maztaim 3y ago

What are you expecting to run off all four slots that makes that a dealbreaker?

rektide 3y ago
Expect the unexpected. It doesn't have to be a rational known ask. We are Hackers. We want to be ready for whatever. That day when there's a 4 screen display wall? Ready. Connecting to a thunderbolt NAS, a display, a desktop, and our friends laptop? Ready. "What is the use case" is the deadening soul sucking most un Hackerly thing to ask. Computers are amazing general purpose machines & we celebrate their flexible utility. We don't know where flexibility always leads but we value it. We value open systems, open possibilities, open frontiers, not being bounded. Edit: based on the voting, I guess only some of us on HN are Hackers! I also have example use cases too, to be constructive, but guess that's not enough for the cynics.
- ior4uiofrjnev 3y ago
  A "hacker" is someone who makes something do what it wasn't intended to do. Plugging a high-end laptop into the correct number of monitors is not hacking. Maybe stick to Intel chipsets if you must have 4 screens. Or maybe cover over the 4th port, and pretend you have 3 fully-functional ports?
  - rektide 3y ago
    That's a pretty good definition. It think there's more an element of being able to pull off the not forseen. A good code hacker isn't exactly defying computer architecture to extract their wins; they're finding brilliant solutions & cobbling together interesting systems that happen to meet the needs. I think AMD needs the pressure. 4x Thunderbolt 4 is amazing. AMD offering 2x USB 4 is such a massive downgrade. Just a shake of the head & saying "go buy Intel" as if this is some natural expected unnoteworthy situation doesn't cut it for me.
    - tracker1 3y ago

dathinab 3y ago

it sounds bad but it's pretty common in any multi USB-C port laptop and most times the intuitive port usage will anyway be the right one Like most external devices don't benefit in a notivable degree from USB-4 over USB-3.2. The most common exceptions are expanders, docks, monitors with integrated docks, eGPUs and similar. But most of the you would normally anyway prefer on the back ports to get the cables out of the way. Where the front ports are more often used for input devices, usb disks and similar. But they very very often yield the same practical performance on USB-3.2 and USB-4 (not always, but _really_ often). So yes for some people which want 4 USB-4 port or 2 USB-4 ports and a HDMI port and a charging port and are not okay with the charging cable being on the front right port. But the huge majority of people will not care. And there are limitations with what the different laptop CPUs can support so it's not that they could just have magically added additional USB-4 ports or give DP support to all ports.