50 ms·

When have we taxed the rich?

tarsinge 3y ago
From https://taxfoundation.org/historical-income-tax-rates-brackets/ https://taxfoundation.org/historical-income-tax-rates-bracke... the answer is between 1936 and 1981 (as a high as 90% for the highest bracket from 1941 to 1963).
- WeylandYutani 3y ago
  Curiously the time conservatives want to go back too. HN is higher income bracket so they don't need the services the government provides- and have the arrogance to call it waste.
  - realjhol 3y ago
    Conservative here. We don't want to go "back" to anything - we reject the Whig history notion of linear history entirely. Rather there are things we want, and things we don't want, and enormous income taxes is decidedly one of the things we don't want.
rs999gti 3y ago
capital gains taxes Death tax Top level income tax rates Property taxes Sales taxes And for the self employed - estimated quarterly taxes
kevdragon6 3y ago
In 2020: Top 1% paid 42% of all collected income taxes. (1.5 million tax payers paid $722 Billion) Bottom 50% paid 2.25% (78 million tax payers paid $1.7 Billion) https://taxfoundation.org/publications/latest-federal-income-tax-data/ https://taxfoundation.org/publications/latest-federal-income...
- sroussey 3y ago
  The top 1% of that 1% pay almost nothing. This is what gets people all riled up about. And the 99% of the top 1% are the ones that pay. Mostly because it expensive to get around taxes, something the 1% of the 1% can easily afford.
  - cronix 3y ago
    And a lot of people always throws around terms like "almost nothing" without defining it in terms of actual dollars. Is it like 50M is nothing compared to their 10B net worth? What are we talking about/comparing here?
    - sroussey 3y ago
      Trump paid zero for years. Privately, I know how to make investment income go to zero if you have enough of it. It’s all rather fascinating. Really, the top 5% of the top 1% could do it. But if you have less than $1m income (or cap gains), then it’s likely not worth it.
  - qzw 3y ago
    It's not just the expense of getting around taxes, but also the difference in sources of income. If most of the income is on a W-2, there are just not as many ways to get around any income taxes. But if it's mostly business or investment income, that's like Minecraft for accountants.
- grogenaut 3y ago
  how much did those top 1% make in income out of the total?
  - _huayra_ 3y ago
    I'm glad you pointed this out. The parent comment to yours is the equivalent of people seeing a big red map of the US during the presidential race and saying "how come the Democrats win when there's so much red?!", as if land can vote -_-
    - rmk 3y ago
      In America, land can vote, although not in the Presidential election. The Senate.
      - jjeaff 3y ago
        Still not land voting. Seeing as RI gets the same number of votes as AK. And both senate candidates are selected by popular vote in the state, so even if most of the state is red, big blue cities can swing the vote.
        jack_squat 3y ago
        RI has the same approximate population as AK. What people mean when they say land votes, is AK compared to NY. AK has a population of < 1M while NY has a population of > 8 million. Proportionally, Alaskans have > 8x the representation in the senate that New Yorkers have.
        jjeaff 3y ago
        I haven't heard people say "land votes" (except in this thread). Only, "land doesn't vote".
        rmk 3y ago
        Not a proportional vote but a territorial vote nonetheless.
- Caligatio 3y ago
  The trend that is more troubling is the effective tax rate for the 1% of earners is falling (34.47% in 1980 vs 25.99% in 2020) yet their share of total taxes paid is rising (19.05% in 1980 vs 42.31% in 2020). This just highlights the growing income gap between the 1% and everyone else.
  - johngladtj 3y ago
    Or perhaps it's just proving the laffer curve true.
- oblio 3y ago
  If that's supposed to be some sort of rallying cry in their defense: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPKKQnijnsM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPKKQnijnsM The top 1% had almost 40% of the wealth in the US, in 2012. And that video is from 2012, from before Covid, now it's much, much worse, because since 2020 the top 1% have captured about 66% of the extra wealth created.
  - refurb 3y ago
    The top 1% have 40% of wealth and pay 40% of taxes? Sounds ideal to me.
Justin_K 3y ago
In general the rich pay most taxes: https://www.heritage.org/taxes/commentary/1-chart-how-much-the-rich-pay-taxes https://www.heritage.org/taxes/commentary/1-chart-how-much-t... Rich people pay more property taxes. Rich people pay own companies, which pay corporate taxes. LA just enacted a wealth tax on 5m+ real estate. My point is how many times have we been sold the concept of "if we just bond or tax X, we can solve problem Y". These always turn out to be Big dreams where billions get spent and nothing really gets better. Look at the CA high speed rail diaster. Look at this one... The government sold a bond for homeless housing and raided the money for another project. https://calmatters.org/california-divide/2021/03/california-affordable-housing-bonds-disappear/ https://calmatters.org/california-divide/2021/03/california-... We don't have revenue problems, we have spending problems.

From https://taxfoundation.org/historical-income-tax-rates-brackets/ https://taxfoundation.org/historical-income-tax-rates-bracke... the answer is between 1936 and 1981 (as a high as 90% for the highest bracket from 1941 to 1963).

WeylandYutani 3y ago
Curiously the time conservatives want to go back too. HN is higher income bracket so they don't need the services the government provides- and have the arrogance to call it waste.
- realjhol 3y ago
  Conservative here. We don't want to go "back" to anything - we reject the Whig history notion of linear history entirely. Rather there are things we want, and things we don't want, and enormous income taxes is decidedly one of the things we don't want.

rs999gti 3y ago

capital gains taxes Death tax Top level income tax rates Property taxes Sales taxes And for the self employed - estimated quarterly taxes

kevdragon6 3y ago

In 2020: Top 1% paid 42% of all collected income taxes. (1.5 million tax payers paid $722 Billion) Bottom 50% paid 2.25% (78 million tax payers paid $1.7 Billion) https://taxfoundation.org/publications/latest-federal-income-tax-data/ https://taxfoundation.org/publications/latest-federal-income...

sroussey 3y ago
The top 1% of that 1% pay almost nothing. This is what gets people all riled up about. And the 99% of the top 1% are the ones that pay. Mostly because it expensive to get around taxes, something the 1% of the 1% can easily afford.
- cronix 3y ago
  And a lot of people always throws around terms like "almost nothing" without defining it in terms of actual dollars. Is it like 50M is nothing compared to their 10B net worth? What are we talking about/comparing here?
  - sroussey 3y ago
    Trump paid zero for years. Privately, I know how to make investment income go to zero if you have enough of it. It’s all rather fascinating. Really, the top 5% of the top 1% could do it. But if you have less than $1m income (or cap gains), then it’s likely not worth it.
- qzw 3y ago
  It's not just the expense of getting around taxes, but also the difference in sources of income. If most of the income is on a W-2, there are just not as many ways to get around any income taxes. But if it's mostly business or investment income, that's like Minecraft for accountants.
grogenaut 3y ago
how much did those top 1% make in income out of the total?
- _huayra_ 3y ago
  I'm glad you pointed this out. The parent comment to yours is the equivalent of people seeing a big red map of the US during the presidential race and saying "how come the Democrats win when there's so much red?!", as if land can vote -_-
  - rmk 3y ago
    In America, land can vote, although not in the Presidential election. The Senate.
    - jjeaff 3y ago
      Still not land voting. Seeing as RI gets the same number of votes as AK. And both senate candidates are selected by popular vote in the state, so even if most of the state is red, big blue cities can swing the vote.
      - jack_squat 3y ago
        RI has the same approximate population as AK. What people mean when they say land votes, is AK compared to NY. AK has a population of < 1M while NY has a population of > 8 million. Proportionally, Alaskans have > 8x the representation in the senate that New Yorkers have.
        jjeaff 3y ago
        I haven't heard people say "land votes" (except in this thread). Only, "land doesn't vote".
      - rmk 3y ago
        Not a proportional vote but a territorial vote nonetheless.
Caligatio 3y ago
The trend that is more troubling is the effective tax rate for the 1% of earners is falling (34.47% in 1980 vs 25.99% in 2020) yet their share of total taxes paid is rising (19.05% in 1980 vs 42.31% in 2020). This just highlights the growing income gap between the 1% and everyone else.
- johngladtj 3y ago
  Or perhaps it's just proving the laffer curve true.
oblio 3y ago
If that's supposed to be some sort of rallying cry in their defense: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPKKQnijnsM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPKKQnijnsM The top 1% had almost 40% of the wealth in the US, in 2012. And that video is from 2012, from before Covid, now it's much, much worse, because since 2020 the top 1% have captured about 66% of the extra wealth created.
- refurb 3y ago
  The top 1% have 40% of wealth and pay 40% of taxes? Sounds ideal to me.

Justin_K 3y ago

In general the rich pay most taxes: https://www.heritage.org/taxes/commentary/1-chart-how-much-the-rich-pay-taxes https://www.heritage.org/taxes/commentary/1-chart-how-much-t... Rich people pay more property taxes. Rich people pay own companies, which pay corporate taxes. LA just enacted a wealth tax on 5m+ real estate. My point is how many times have we been sold the concept of "if we just bond or tax X, we can solve problem Y". These always turn out to be Big dreams where billions get spent and nothing really gets better. Look at the CA high speed rail diaster. Look at this one... The government sold a bond for homeless housing and raided the money for another project. https://calmatters.org/california-divide/2021/03/california-affordable-housing-bonds-disappear/ https://calmatters.org/california-divide/2021/03/california-... We don't have revenue problems, we have spending problems.