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It seems like a mistake, the role of the justice system should be to protect the public first and foremost. For serious cases this means they should never be re

It seems like a mistake, the role of the justice system should be to protect the public first and foremost. For serious cases this means they should never be released - the potential risk vs. reward just isn't worth it. Also the death penalty can allow some reimbursement of victims (via blood and plasma donation, etc.), without forced prison labour that causes issues by undercutting normal workers.

maximilianroos 3y ago
> Also the death penalty can allow some reimbursement of victims (via blood and plasma donation, etc.), without forced prison labour that causes issues by undercutting normal workers. One of the craziest takes on here, really saying something
- Arrath 3y ago
  Yeah, no kidding. Might as well start harvesting organs, why not? /s
dragonwriter 3y ago
> Also the death penalty can allow some reimbursement of victims (via blood and plasma donation, etc.), without forced prison labour that causes issues by undercutting normal workers. Among the more minor reasons this is an insane take is that you can steal and sell body fluids from prisoners (and more of them, because they regenerate) as well as people you murder without forced prison labor, too (of course, if you are willing to steal and sell body parts, you probably are also willing to steal and sell labor, but doing one doesn’t require the other.)
eropple 3y ago
> It seems like a mistake, the role of the justice system should be to protect the public first and foremost. No. The role of the justice system is to find truth and render equitable punishment. State-sponsored killing is a one-way door and no court can rule with such complete surety of sufficient guilt and motive to make walking through that one-way door something that can be on the table. I would support capital punishment for elected politicians and law enforcement, to represent the higher stakes of their breach of the public trust, but that's because those jobs should not be aspirational and the retributive framework for them necessarily differs. But the cases that go to death row in America? It's nonsense. > Also the death penalty can allow some reimbursement of victims (via blood and plasma donation, etc.), without forced prison labour that causes issues by undercutting normal workers. This is a deeply ghastly sentiment and deserves no further address.
JumpCrisscross 3y ago
> without forced prison labour that causes issues by undercutting normal workers Isn't the solution to charge prison labour employers the federal minimum wage?
- clcaev 3y ago
  why not market wage? Prison inmates often have spouses, children, elders, and also need to save for their own retirement If we want to rehabilitate people, we have to consider their financial wellbeing so they can reenter society when they are released, otherwise, we are just setting them up for continued failures
  - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
    > why not market wage There would be zero public support for giving prisoners free food and housing for building up a nest egg. Market rate is fine, but I imagine a deduction for prison costs would be assessed.
  - tstrimple 3y ago
    And would almost completely kill the profit motive of prisons that we know for a fact has been used to put innocent people behind bars. https://www.npr.org/2014/03/08/287286626/kids-for-cash-captures-a-juvenile-justice-scandal-from-two-sides https://www.npr.org/2014/03/08/287286626/kids-for-cash-captu... It seems prudent to remove perverse incentives when possible.
klyrs 3y ago
> without forced prison labour that causes issues by undercutting normal workers. I agree, we should abolish slavery and pay a fair wage for prison labor.
nullc 3y ago
> the potential risk vs. reward just isn't worth it. the world is a dangerous place, always has been, and unless we invent mind uploading or whatever it always will be. Take care to not let the little bubble of temporary safety around you mislead you about what risks are above or below the noise floor. Without having done the math, I believe all the prisoners in your state could probably be one-time released today while causing you personally no more marginal risk of serious harm than you already experience from a couple long car trips. This isn't to say that I don't think prisons have an important place, but I think some perspective is important. People attribute much more concern to risks that have a narrative inspiring human cause than they do to risks that kill many more people.

maximilianroos 3y ago

Arrath 3y ago
Yeah, no kidding. Might as well start harvesting organs, why not? /s

dragonwriter 3y ago

> Also the death penalty can allow some reimbursement of victims (via blood and plasma donation, etc.), without forced prison labour that causes issues by undercutting normal workers. Among the more minor reasons this is an insane take is that you can steal and sell body fluids from prisoners (and more of them, because they regenerate) as well as people you murder without forced prison labor, too (of course, if you are willing to steal and sell body parts, you probably are also willing to steal and sell labor, but doing one doesn’t require the other.)

eropple 3y ago

> It seems like a mistake, the role of the justice system should be to protect the public first and foremost. No. The role of the justice system is to find truth and render equitable punishment. State-sponsored killing is a one-way door and no court can rule with such complete surety of sufficient guilt and motive to make walking through that one-way door something that can be on the table. I would support capital punishment for elected politicians and law enforcement, to represent the higher stakes of their breach of the public trust, but that's because those jobs should not be aspirational and the retributive framework for them necessarily differs. But the cases that go to death row in America? It's nonsense. > Also the death penalty can allow some reimbursement of victims (via blood and plasma donation, etc.), without forced prison labour that causes issues by undercutting normal workers. This is a deeply ghastly sentiment and deserves no further address.

JumpCrisscross 3y ago

> without forced prison labour that causes issues by undercutting normal workers Isn't the solution to charge prison labour employers the federal minimum wage?

clcaev 3y ago
why not market wage? Prison inmates often have spouses, children, elders, and also need to save for their own retirement If we want to rehabilitate people, we have to consider their financial wellbeing so they can reenter society when they are released, otherwise, we are just setting them up for continued failures
- JumpCrisscross 3y ago
  > why not market wage There would be zero public support for giving prisoners free food and housing for building up a nest egg. Market rate is fine, but I imagine a deduction for prison costs would be assessed.
- tstrimple 3y ago
  And would almost completely kill the profit motive of prisons that we know for a fact has been used to put innocent people behind bars. https://www.npr.org/2014/03/08/287286626/kids-for-cash-captures-a-juvenile-justice-scandal-from-two-sides https://www.npr.org/2014/03/08/287286626/kids-for-cash-captu... It seems prudent to remove perverse incentives when possible.

klyrs 3y ago

> without forced prison labour that causes issues by undercutting normal workers. I agree, we should abolish slavery and pay a fair wage for prison labor.

nullc 3y ago

> the potential risk vs. reward just isn't worth it. the world is a dangerous place, always has been, and unless we invent mind uploading or whatever it always will be. Take care to not let the little bubble of temporary safety around you mislead you about what risks are above or below the noise floor. Without having done the math, I believe all the prisoners in your state could probably be one-time released today while causing you personally no more marginal risk of serious harm than you already experience from a couple long car trips. This isn't to say that I don't think prisons have an important place, but I think some perspective is important. People attribute much more concern to risks that have a narrative inspiring human cause than they do to risks that kill many more people.