7 ms·

Your iPhone Was Built with Child Labor

84 points by tcpip 3y ago

jjtheblunt 3y ago
Does this article contradict Apple's 2017 change in suppliers https://fortune.com/2017/03/03/apple-cobalt-child-labor/ https://fortune.com/2017/03/03/apple-cobalt-child-labor/
- Isamu 3y ago
  This article says that 70% of Cobalt comes from the Congo and “no way” can they avoid the taint of this. So no, they don’t care that Apple changed suppliers for Cobalt to avoid this very issue. Also the recent news that Apple is aggressively pursuing 100% recycled Cobalt.
  - smugma 3y ago
    Amnesty International report from 2017. Apple is the top rated consumer electronics company (page 78 for all the companies together, 94 focuses on consumer electronics): https://www.amnesty.org/en/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/AFR6273952017ENGLISH.pdf https://www.amnesty.org/en/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/AFR627...
    - aembleton 3y ago
      Looks like Samsung is rated just as high
jschveibinz 3y ago
Child labor in the… Fashion and footwear industry: https://labs.theguardian.com/unicef-child-labour/ https://labs.theguardian.com/unicef-child-labour/ Shrimp processing: https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2015/dec/14/shrimp-sold-by-global-supermarkets-is-peeled-by-slave-labourers-in-thailand https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2015/dec/14/s... Mining: https://www.ilo.org/wcmsp5/groups/public/---asia/---ro-bangkok/---ilo-manila/documents/publication/wcms_720743.pdf https://www.ilo.org/wcmsp5/groups/public/---asia/---ro-bangk... And everything else: https://www.dol.gov/agencies/ilab/reports/child-labor/list-of-goods https://www.dol.gov/agencies/ilab/reports/child-labor/list-o...
- Overtonwindow 3y ago
  This is great information and everything, but it seems like you're deflecting. Your smartphone was still made by child labor.
  - tomohelix 3y ago
    I think his point is that given the context that everything is involved with child labor somehow, pointing out just one particular item isn't very helpful. More nuances about iphone being a luxury brand and therefore less justifiable and more "disgusting" can be added. But like how you said it above, it doesn't change the fact that the very economy and the comfort we are enjoying partly come from child labor.
    - happytoexplain 3y ago
      I am giving the GP the benefit of the doubt and don't think they are engaging in child labor whataboutism, but I also think they should write in a way that does not invite the qualification of "I think his point is...". >pointing out just one particular item isn't very helpful It absolutely is. And pointing out more is even better!
      - Retric 3y ago
        > It absolutely is. And pointing out more is even better. I don’t see how. If I point out your PC, car, house, office, etc are all likely built in some small way from child labor you’re going to do what exactly? There’s plenty of documentation for many egregious cases, but when you look at the full supply chain for anything it quickly starts to look like the global economy as a whole. https://www.dol.gov/agencies/ilab/reports/child-labor/list-of-goods https://www.dol.gov/agencies/ilab/reports/child-labor/list-o...
        TylerE 3y ago
        And are the deplorable conditions suddenly a-ok the day they turn 18?
aio2 3y ago
I really hoped this was common knowledge. Guess it wasn't.
- throwaway81348 3y ago
  What makes you say that?
  - aio2 3y ago
    Wouldn't it be great if everyone, or at least most people knew and cared about what was going on behind the scenes in making in iPhone?
- hammyhavoc 3y ago
  It's common knowledge for a lot of people, but there's new people reaching a state where they have compassion for others every day, that's a positive thing, thus we need to make this information available to them to understand what's wrong with the world.
aaron695 3y ago
[dead]
mellosouls 3y ago
For those moaning about the title, the use of iPhone as an icon of uncaring capitalism is not the takeaway here. The exploitation and ravaging of people and environments enabled by PR-friendly phrase-fiddling ("oh we only use virtuous suppliers") is. Yes, it's classic clickbait, but more power to it if it brings eyes that would have otherwise passed by. Butthurt iPhone and smug Android owners alike will be snared in the trap, the brand is just the bait. It has us, now read and consider.
charcircuit 3y ago
Children get money, I get a good product. It's a win win situation.
- 1letterunixname 3y ago
  So child labor laws are unnecessary if they benefit you?
  - charcircuit 3y ago
    If everyone is benefiting from something and no one is being harmed then yes I do believe the laws are unnecessary.
    - danaris 3y ago
      The benefits and detriments the children get by working are not equal to those they could get if they were able to get an education and have free time to play, instead. "This is beneficial enough that some people choose it" and "this is a genuine good thing for those people, compared to the other options" are not equivalent.
    - 1letterunixname 3y ago
      [flagged]
- anon7919 3y ago
  Did you spend your childhood in a sweatshop as well?
  - charcircuit 3y ago
    I had my own side hustles as a child. I preferred computer related work instead of manual labor. Since I was good at what I did no one cared about my age.
- sofixa 3y ago
  > Children get money In exchange for extremely dangerous working conditions that can and usually do irreparable damage for life. It's hardly a "win" for a kid to grow up doing this for money, and have horrible health issues after the age of 30, making their remaining life miserable.
1letterunixname 3y ago
It's good to raise awareness but it's not recent news. - Foxconn ships poor people from rural areas to mega factories, take their identity documents, and essentially holds them hostage. - Up the supply chain, small-scale miners of rare earth minerals risk their lives and die everyday. - Consumer cognitive dissonance allows billions of people to eat hamburgers without considering the impact of their choices. https://www.bbc.com/news/av/business-30540538 https://www.bbc.com/news/av/business-30540538
- seanmcdirmid 3y ago
  > Foxconn ships poor people from rural areas to mega factories They don't have to ship them, the poor people from rural areas come looking for better jobs in the mega factories. Nothing wrong with that. > take their identity documents, and essentially holds them hostage. This is a huge deal which many Chinese companies used to practice even just 10 years ago. I don't think it is very common now, the government did crack down on it, to stop making it a norm business practice. That was 2014. Things aren't perfect now, but better than back then.
  - 1letterunixname 3y ago
    [flagged]
not_me_ever 3y ago
Just like every single other item you own.
moritzwarhier 3y ago
> It's good to raise awareness but it's not recent news. [...] > Child labor in the… [...] Have you read the article? To me –pardon my subjectivity and don't take this as a personal attack please – this sounds like it can can be paraphrased with "I don't care". The article paints a pretty strong picture not only of child labor and slavery but also of the environmental devastation and violence around the harvesting of raw materials in all these countries. It also mentions electric vehicles, which have batteries that make iPhone batteries seem like a drop in the ocean in size comparison, and are celebrated as green progress. > How should the typical westerner deal with these facts? Maybe not buy unneeded batteries and advocate for honest regulation and a stop to reckless growth based on slave labour and environmental destruction? Maybe stop pretending that capitalism would represent liberty and freedom, when it is built on destruction, unsustainability and slave labor? For some reason, people can read such an article and claim that they know anything about reasonable environmental policy a couple of hours later, minutes even. Sorry for the rant, but it makes me sick to follow debate about these topics. Writing this from a device containing the same minerals that the article is about, duh. > Hold the corps to account, vote with your wallet, demand that they reinvest profits in education and betterment and development of these geographic areas. This is a poltical issue on a global scale. As long as it is allowed to reap profit from exploitation, outsource slave labor and environmental destruction and call this "free market", nothing will change. I welcome everyone who reduces his/her participation in the global exploitation of poverty and the environment, but without political action it is all smoke and mirrors.

84 points by tcpip 3y ago

Does this article contradict Apple's 2017 change in suppliers https://fortune.com/2017/03/03/apple-cobalt-child-labor/ https://fortune.com/2017/03/03/apple-cobalt-child-labor/

Isamu 3y ago
This article says that 70% of Cobalt comes from the Congo and “no way” can they avoid the taint of this. So no, they don’t care that Apple changed suppliers for Cobalt to avoid this very issue. Also the recent news that Apple is aggressively pursuing 100% recycled Cobalt.
- smugma 3y ago
  Amnesty International report from 2017. Apple is the top rated consumer electronics company (page 78 for all the companies together, 94 focuses on consumer electronics): https://www.amnesty.org/en/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/AFR6273952017ENGLISH.pdf https://www.amnesty.org/en/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/AFR627...
  - aembleton 3y ago
    Looks like Samsung is rated just as high

jschveibinz 3y ago

Child labor in the… Fashion and footwear industry: https://labs.theguardian.com/unicef-child-labour/ https://labs.theguardian.com/unicef-child-labour/ Shrimp processing: https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2015/dec/14/shrimp-sold-by-global-supermarkets-is-peeled-by-slave-labourers-in-thailand https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2015/dec/14/s... Mining: https://www.ilo.org/wcmsp5/groups/public/---asia/---ro-bangkok/---ilo-manila/documents/publication/wcms_720743.pdf https://www.ilo.org/wcmsp5/groups/public/---asia/---ro-bangk... And everything else: https://www.dol.gov/agencies/ilab/reports/child-labor/list-of-goods https://www.dol.gov/agencies/ilab/reports/child-labor/list-o...

Overtonwindow 3y ago
This is great information and everything, but it seems like you're deflecting. Your smartphone was still made by child labor.
- tomohelix 3y ago
  I think his point is that given the context that everything is involved with child labor somehow, pointing out just one particular item isn't very helpful. More nuances about iphone being a luxury brand and therefore less justifiable and more "disgusting" can be added. But like how you said it above, it doesn't change the fact that the very economy and the comfort we are enjoying partly come from child labor.
  - happytoexplain 3y ago
    I am giving the GP the benefit of the doubt and don't think they are engaging in child labor whataboutism, but I also think they should write in a way that does not invite the qualification of "I think his point is...". >pointing out just one particular item isn't very helpful It absolutely is. And pointing out more is even better!
    - Retric 3y ago
      > It absolutely is. And pointing out more is even better. I don’t see how. If I point out your PC, car, house, office, etc are all likely built in some small way from child labor you’re going to do what exactly? There’s plenty of documentation for many egregious cases, but when you look at the full supply chain for anything it quickly starts to look like the global economy as a whole. https://www.dol.gov/agencies/ilab/reports/child-labor/list-of-goods https://www.dol.gov/agencies/ilab/reports/child-labor/list-o...
      - TylerE 3y ago
        And are the deplorable conditions suddenly a-ok the day they turn 18?

aio2 3y ago

I really hoped this was common knowledge. Guess it wasn't.

throwaway81348 3y ago
What makes you say that?
- aio2 3y ago
  Wouldn't it be great if everyone, or at least most people knew and cared about what was going on behind the scenes in making in iPhone?
hammyhavoc 3y ago
It's common knowledge for a lot of people, but there's new people reaching a state where they have compassion for others every day, that's a positive thing, thus we need to make this information available to them to understand what's wrong with the world.

aaron695 3y ago

[dead]

mellosouls 3y ago

For those moaning about the title, the use of iPhone as an icon of uncaring capitalism is not the takeaway here. The exploitation and ravaging of people and environments enabled by PR-friendly phrase-fiddling ("oh we only use virtuous suppliers") is. Yes, it's classic clickbait, but more power to it if it brings eyes that would have otherwise passed by. Butthurt iPhone and smug Android owners alike will be snared in the trap, the brand is just the bait. It has us, now read and consider.

charcircuit 3y ago

Children get money, I get a good product. It's a win win situation.

1letterunixname 3y ago
So child labor laws are unnecessary if they benefit you?
- charcircuit 3y ago
  If everyone is benefiting from something and no one is being harmed then yes I do believe the laws are unnecessary.
  - danaris 3y ago
    The benefits and detriments the children get by working are not equal to those they could get if they were able to get an education and have free time to play, instead. "This is beneficial enough that some people choose it" and "this is a genuine good thing for those people, compared to the other options" are not equivalent.
  - 1letterunixname 3y ago
    [flagged]
anon7919 3y ago
Did you spend your childhood in a sweatshop as well?
- charcircuit 3y ago
  I had my own side hustles as a child. I preferred computer related work instead of manual labor. Since I was good at what I did no one cared about my age.
sofixa 3y ago
> Children get money In exchange for extremely dangerous working conditions that can and usually do irreparable damage for life. It's hardly a "win" for a kid to grow up doing this for money, and have horrible health issues after the age of 30, making their remaining life miserable.

1letterunixname 3y ago

It's good to raise awareness but it's not recent news. - Foxconn ships poor people from rural areas to mega factories, take their identity documents, and essentially holds them hostage. - Up the supply chain, small-scale miners of rare earth minerals risk their lives and die everyday. - Consumer cognitive dissonance allows billions of people to eat hamburgers without considering the impact of their choices. https://www.bbc.com/news/av/business-30540538 https://www.bbc.com/news/av/business-30540538

seanmcdirmid 3y ago
> Foxconn ships poor people from rural areas to mega factories They don't have to ship them, the poor people from rural areas come looking for better jobs in the mega factories. Nothing wrong with that. > take their identity documents, and essentially holds them hostage. This is a huge deal which many Chinese companies used to practice even just 10 years ago. I don't think it is very common now, the government did crack down on it, to stop making it a norm business practice. That was 2014. Things aren't perfect now, but better than back then.
- 1letterunixname 3y ago
  [flagged]

not_me_ever 3y ago

Just like every single other item you own.

moritzwarhier 3y ago

> It's good to raise awareness but it's not recent news. [...] > Child labor in the… [...] Have you read the article? To me –pardon my subjectivity and don't take this as a personal attack please – this sounds like it can can be paraphrased with "I don't care". The article paints a pretty strong picture not only of child labor and slavery but also of the environmental devastation and violence around the harvesting of raw materials in all these countries. It also mentions electric vehicles, which have batteries that make iPhone batteries seem like a drop in the ocean in size comparison, and are celebrated as green progress. > How should the typical westerner deal with these facts? Maybe not buy unneeded batteries and advocate for honest regulation and a stop to reckless growth based on slave labour and environmental destruction? Maybe stop pretending that capitalism would represent liberty and freedom, when it is built on destruction, unsustainability and slave labor? For some reason, people can read such an article and claim that they know anything about reasonable environmental policy a couple of hours later, minutes even. Sorry for the rant, but it makes me sick to follow debate about these topics. Writing this from a device containing the same minerals that the article is about, duh. > Hold the corps to account, vote with your wallet, demand that they reinvest profits in education and betterment and development of these geographic areas. This is a poltical issue on a global scale. As long as it is allowed to reap profit from exploitation, outsource slave labor and environmental destruction and call this "free market", nothing will change. I welcome everyone who reduces his/her participation in the global exploitation of poverty and the environment, but without political action it is all smoke and mirrors.