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Bullshit, 16 would be too late for hormone blockers. The blockers are also said to prevent the kids from adapting to their biological gender, leading onto a pa

Bullshit, 16 would be too late for hormone blockers. The blockers are also said to prevent the kids from adapting to their biological gender, leading onto a path to surgery. I am amazed how willing to lie people are in this forum.

flir 3y ago
As a very rough rule of thumb, if it comes in pill form, it's probably not surgery.
- rainworld 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - flir 3y ago
    Are you not seeing a discussion about surgery here?
    - rainworld 3y ago
      [flagged]
      - wowyallsuck 3y ago
        [flagged]
      - baseballdork 3y ago
        > These things are all designed to permanently turn people (in particular young people, children) into bad simulacra of the other sex. Citation needed. They're _designed_ to permanently turn people into bad simulacra of the other sex? > That’s literally satanic by the way. What? Even if that were true, who cares? Your particular religious beliefs are irrelevant.
        rainworld 3y ago
        [flagged]
  - vidarh 3y ago
    Almost no word in this is true. Blockers are "reversible": You stop taking them. Their primary effect is a delay of puberty during use, nothing more drastic. "Activists" push them because the negative mental health effects of forcing trans children to go through puberty before they have a chance to decide as adults whether or not to fully transition are severe and debilitating, and it's shockingly immoral to try to actively deny people access to them.
    - rainworld 3y ago
      [flagged]
      - flir 3y ago
        > Stop parroting the propaganda which we are all perfectly familiar with and educate yourself You're at least the second person to say "do your research" rather than offer up some evidence. In my experience, that's the mark of a conspiracy theorist. But I could easily be wrong. Have you got any papers on puberty blockers that support your position? > Yeah, it’s shockingly immoral to not give children drugs that have existed for something like 0.01% of human existence. Appeal to nature fallacy?
        rainworld 3y ago
        [flagged]
      - Timon3 3y ago
        > Yeah, it’s shockingly immoral to not give children drugs that have existed for something like 0.01% of human existence. What is the argument here? Drugs haven't existed for long, so it's okay to prevent people from using them? I'm sure we can all agree it would be shockingly immoral to steal cancer drugs from a patient, even if it is natural development.
        klyrs 3y ago
        This jumped out at me too. Yes, it would be shockingly immoral to stop giving children antibiotics. Which I mention because penicillin was developed at around the same time as synthetic estrogen and testosterone. And penicillin could kill me due to an anaphylactic allergy, and it's largely considered safe by medical standards.
  - klyrs 3y ago
    Hormone blockers are frequently prescribed to children to prevent precocious puberty. This practice is extremely well supported by research and considered safe and reversible through decades of observation. But unlike transgender patients, hormone blockers are given to children with symptoms of precocious puberty without the child's informed consent. Where's the outrage?
    - rainworld 3y ago
      [flagged]
- transcoderx 3y ago
  The issue is kids being transitioned, in whatever way. The pills build up towards surgery.
  - flir 3y ago
    I saw your other comment before it got deleted. I know you for what you are.
    - transcoderx 3y ago
      What got deleted, and what am I supposedly? Your comment also says a lot about you. I don't feel ashamed for worrying about the unwarranted mutilation of children. What is your excuse?
  - chownie 3y ago
    "Being transitioned" removes agency from people who fight for years for this. You have been shown across this thread that vanishingly few even gain access to any kind of medical support until their late teens and still you insist on lying, pretending that "kids" are being transitioned against their will -- meanwhile in reality trans teens are crying out at the 5+ year long waiting lists just for access to clinics. You have to turn your back on the trans children who grew into adults and pretend they don't exist to spin this lie where transition is a verb you apply to other people rather than a choice that someone makes for themselves.
    - transcoderx 3y ago
      Vanishingly small numbers? There are hundreds of teens who get surgeries and thousands who get drugs. Your claim that it all only happens because of these kids agencies is unsubstantiated. How do you explain the doubling of numbers of kids who say they are trans? And you claim nobody ever regrets transitioning, which is a lie.
vidarh 3y ago
chownie said hormones, e.g. testosterone/estrogen, not hormone blockers. You're right, 16 would be too late for most for hormone blockers, and as such it causes immense harm when trans children are prevented from getting blockers earlier, because it causes irreversible changes to occur that strongly correlates with massively increased rates of harmful outcomes (up to and including suicides). > The blockers are also said to prevent the kids from adapting to their biological gender, leading onto a path to surgery. Ah, "it is said". > I am amazed how willing to lie people are in this forum. Maybe drop the unfounded accusations when you're the one attacking someone for a claim they've not made.
- transcoderx 3y ago
  The correct word would have been puberty blockers (which presumably are also hormones). Most people who believe they are trans actually grow out of it. Puberty blockers (and also testosterone) have severe side effects (or main effects). Therefore more harm is done by overprescribing them. There is not even scientific evidence yet that trans people actually exist (as in somebody born in the wrong body somehow). "Ah it is said" - yeah in the same way that "it is said" that withholding puberty blockers causes harm and whatever else you claim.
chownie 3y ago
Hormone blockers suppress the expression of estrogen and testosterone, I was very clearly referring to hormone replacement therapy. Moral of the story is, people aren't lying just because you refuse to read the words written literally on the screen.
- transcoderx 3y ago
  I meant to say puberty blockers, not hormone blockers. Which should have been quite obvious from the context.
  - chownie 3y ago
    I think it's less obvious because you brought them up without context. Not going to walk back that accusation that I'm a liar, now you know that you were talking about something else?

flir 3y ago

As a very rough rule of thumb, if it comes in pill form, it's probably not surgery.

rainworld 3y ago
[flagged]
- flir 3y ago
  Are you not seeing a discussion about surgery here?
  - rainworld 3y ago
    [flagged]
    - wowyallsuck 3y ago
      [flagged]
    - baseballdork 3y ago
      > These things are all designed to permanently turn people (in particular young people, children) into bad simulacra of the other sex. Citation needed. They're _designed_ to permanently turn people into bad simulacra of the other sex? > That’s literally satanic by the way. What? Even if that were true, who cares? Your particular religious beliefs are irrelevant.
      - rainworld 3y ago
        [flagged]
- vidarh 3y ago
  Almost no word in this is true. Blockers are "reversible": You stop taking them. Their primary effect is a delay of puberty during use, nothing more drastic. "Activists" push them because the negative mental health effects of forcing trans children to go through puberty before they have a chance to decide as adults whether or not to fully transition are severe and debilitating, and it's shockingly immoral to try to actively deny people access to them.
  - rainworld 3y ago
    [flagged]
    - flir 3y ago
      > Stop parroting the propaganda which we are all perfectly familiar with and educate yourself You're at least the second person to say "do your research" rather than offer up some evidence. In my experience, that's the mark of a conspiracy theorist. But I could easily be wrong. Have you got any papers on puberty blockers that support your position? > Yeah, it’s shockingly immoral to not give children drugs that have existed for something like 0.01% of human existence. Appeal to nature fallacy?
      - rainworld 3y ago
        [flagged]
    - Timon3 3y ago
      > Yeah, it’s shockingly immoral to not give children drugs that have existed for something like 0.01% of human existence. What is the argument here? Drugs haven't existed for long, so it's okay to prevent people from using them? I'm sure we can all agree it would be shockingly immoral to steal cancer drugs from a patient, even if it is natural development.
      - klyrs 3y ago
        This jumped out at me too. Yes, it would be shockingly immoral to stop giving children antibiotics. Which I mention because penicillin was developed at around the same time as synthetic estrogen and testosterone. And penicillin could kill me due to an anaphylactic allergy, and it's largely considered safe by medical standards.
- klyrs 3y ago
  Hormone blockers are frequently prescribed to children to prevent precocious puberty. This practice is extremely well supported by research and considered safe and reversible through decades of observation. But unlike transgender patients, hormone blockers are given to children with symptoms of precocious puberty without the child's informed consent. Where's the outrage?
  - rainworld 3y ago
    [flagged]
transcoderx 3y ago
The issue is kids being transitioned, in whatever way. The pills build up towards surgery.
- flir 3y ago
  I saw your other comment before it got deleted. I know you for what you are.
  - transcoderx 3y ago
    What got deleted, and what am I supposedly? Your comment also says a lot about you. I don't feel ashamed for worrying about the unwarranted mutilation of children. What is your excuse?
- chownie 3y ago
  "Being transitioned" removes agency from people who fight for years for this. You have been shown across this thread that vanishingly few even gain access to any kind of medical support until their late teens and still you insist on lying, pretending that "kids" are being transitioned against their will -- meanwhile in reality trans teens are crying out at the 5+ year long waiting lists just for access to clinics. You have to turn your back on the trans children who grew into adults and pretend they don't exist to spin this lie where transition is a verb you apply to other people rather than a choice that someone makes for themselves.
  - transcoderx 3y ago
    Vanishingly small numbers? There are hundreds of teens who get surgeries and thousands who get drugs. Your claim that it all only happens because of these kids agencies is unsubstantiated. How do you explain the doubling of numbers of kids who say they are trans? And you claim nobody ever regrets transitioning, which is a lie.

vidarh 3y ago

chownie said hormones, e.g. testosterone/estrogen, not hormone blockers. You're right, 16 would be too late for most for hormone blockers, and as such it causes immense harm when trans children are prevented from getting blockers earlier, because it causes irreversible changes to occur that strongly correlates with massively increased rates of harmful outcomes (up to and including suicides). > The blockers are also said to prevent the kids from adapting to their biological gender, leading onto a path to surgery. Ah, "it is said". > I am amazed how willing to lie people are in this forum. Maybe drop the unfounded accusations when you're the one attacking someone for a claim they've not made.

transcoderx 3y ago
The correct word would have been puberty blockers (which presumably are also hormones). Most people who believe they are trans actually grow out of it. Puberty blockers (and also testosterone) have severe side effects (or main effects). Therefore more harm is done by overprescribing them. There is not even scientific evidence yet that trans people actually exist (as in somebody born in the wrong body somehow). "Ah it is said" - yeah in the same way that "it is said" that withholding puberty blockers causes harm and whatever else you claim.

chownie 3y ago

Hormone blockers suppress the expression of estrogen and testosterone, I was very clearly referring to hormone replacement therapy. Moral of the story is, people aren't lying just because you refuse to read the words written literally on the screen.

transcoderx 3y ago
I meant to say puberty blockers, not hormone blockers. Which should have been quite obvious from the context.
- chownie 3y ago
  I think it's less obvious because you brought them up without context. Not going to walk back that accusation that I'm a liar, now you know that you were talking about something else?