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No, puberty blockers are not 100% reversible and they are not harmless, either. Surgeries are not rare, either - at least it is debatable what should be conside

No, puberty blockers are not 100% reversible and they are not harmless, either. Surgeries are not rare, either - at least it is debatable what should be considered "rare".

vincnetas 3y ago
Do you have numbers on surgeries. Im curious how "not rate" are they.
- transcoderx 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - vidarh 3y ago
    That story does not support your claim. And Tavistock was not doing surgeries.
    - transcoderx 3y ago
      Hetre are some numbers: https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/usa-transyouth-data/ https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/usa-tran... Unclear how many of the kids who receive hormones end up getting surgery.
      - vidarh 3y ago
        So a miniscule number, and one where the best approach to reducing it further is to encourage the use of puberty blockers to prevent getting to the stage where it is the best option until they are better able to give consent. And yet you're arguing for denying them the option that'd reduce the demand for these surgeries.
        transcoderx 3y ago
        [flagged]
    - transcoderx 3y ago
      [flagged]
      - vidarh 3y ago
        It "might be said" but that makes no sense to anyone who knew firmly what their gender identity was from early childhood. The norm is around 4 years of age. It also makes no sense given that dysphoria does disappear for a portion of patients irrespective of which hormones they're on. As well as for those on puberty blockers. The entire point of puberty blockers is allow for delaying the decision on going on hormones or surgery as long as needed for the patient to be able to make an informed choice. And of course a lot of the kids given hormones will end up getting surgery, because their dysphoria is highly unlikely to resolve itself with or without hormones and for those whose dysphoria does not resolve surgery will be the best option for many - hence the very low regret rates. And hence the drive to get puberty blockers to delay the need to decide on either. You're buying into a hysteria founded on ignoring the actual and immoral harm being inflicted on trans youth by those seeking to deny them care in order to try to pretend they mostly don't exist. It's at best deeply misguided, at worst deeply bigoted.
        transcoderx 3y ago
        The dysphoria actually dissolves in most cases, not just in a few cases. And the hormone blockers allegedly also prevent the dysphoria from dissolving in many cases.Hormone blockers also have severe side effects, even possible sterilisation. Since most people end up not actually being trans, more people are now hurt by pushing transitioning as the solution for everything. And you absolutely can not deny that it is being pushed.
        stonogo 3y ago
        Sure I can. Watch: It is not being pushed. I'm on my phone so I can't back that up, but we've already established in this thread that is sufficient grounds to be believed.
        3y ago
altacc 3y ago
Risks are comparative, moral panic is not and ignores this. Banning something because it is not 100% harmless is just not something that is done without extra considerations, such as a moralizing. E.g. Pain killers cause significantly more societal harm than puberty blockers but are still widely available. As to the real risks, time and again it has been shown that the comparative risks of a) receiving puberty blockers vs b) growing up a gender you do not feel you are, strongly points to puberty blockers being a significant net benefit. Those taking puberty blockers rarely regret it; whereas those growing up a gender they do not identify with mostly regret it are are significantly more prone to abuse, mental health issues and suicide.
- transcoderx 3y ago
  No it hasn't been shown time and time again. Look into the actual studies, and not just into the ones the trans lobby presents. The issue here is manipulation of children. If children were fed tons of harmful pain blockers, there would be a "panic", too.
  - zrail 3y ago
    Kids get fed mountains of acetaminophen every year. Why do you suppose that acetaminophen packages have prominent warnings about not exceeding dosages? It's because acetaminophen is extremely hepatotoxic at levels not very far above the recommended dosages. > Hepatic injury and subsequent hepatic failure due to both intentional and non-intentional overdose of acetaminophen (APAP) has affected patients for decades, and [...] remains a global issue; in the United States, in particular, it accounts for more than 50% of overdose-related acute liver failure and approximately 20% of the liver transplant cases. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4913076/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4913076/ I would assert that acetaminophen is far more likely to be dangerous to far more children than puberty blockers and yet I don't see any moral panic over children's Tylenol.
    - transcoderx 3y ago
      Do you know of many cases of children being mutilated for life from Tylenol? Also your assertion is just a wild guess.

No, puberty blockers are not 100% reversible and they are not harmless, either. Surgeries are not rare, either - at least it is debatable what should be considered "rare".

vincnetas 3y ago

Do you have numbers on surgeries. Im curious how "not rate" are they.

transcoderx 3y ago
[flagged]
- vidarh 3y ago
  That story does not support your claim. And Tavistock was not doing surgeries.
  - transcoderx 3y ago
    Hetre are some numbers: https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/usa-transyouth-data/ https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/usa-tran... Unclear how many of the kids who receive hormones end up getting surgery.
    - vidarh 3y ago
      So a miniscule number, and one where the best approach to reducing it further is to encourage the use of puberty blockers to prevent getting to the stage where it is the best option until they are better able to give consent. And yet you're arguing for denying them the option that'd reduce the demand for these surgeries.
      - transcoderx 3y ago
        [flagged]
  - transcoderx 3y ago
    [flagged]
    - vidarh 3y ago
      It "might be said" but that makes no sense to anyone who knew firmly what their gender identity was from early childhood. The norm is around 4 years of age. It also makes no sense given that dysphoria does disappear for a portion of patients irrespective of which hormones they're on. As well as for those on puberty blockers. The entire point of puberty blockers is allow for delaying the decision on going on hormones or surgery as long as needed for the patient to be able to make an informed choice. And of course a lot of the kids given hormones will end up getting surgery, because their dysphoria is highly unlikely to resolve itself with or without hormones and for those whose dysphoria does not resolve surgery will be the best option for many - hence the very low regret rates. And hence the drive to get puberty blockers to delay the need to decide on either. You're buying into a hysteria founded on ignoring the actual and immoral harm being inflicted on trans youth by those seeking to deny them care in order to try to pretend they mostly don't exist. It's at best deeply misguided, at worst deeply bigoted.
      - transcoderx 3y ago
        The dysphoria actually dissolves in most cases, not just in a few cases. And the hormone blockers allegedly also prevent the dysphoria from dissolving in many cases.Hormone blockers also have severe side effects, even possible sterilisation. Since most people end up not actually being trans, more people are now hurt by pushing transitioning as the solution for everything. And you absolutely can not deny that it is being pushed.
        stonogo 3y ago
        Sure I can. Watch: It is not being pushed. I'm on my phone so I can't back that up, but we've already established in this thread that is sufficient grounds to be believed.
        3y ago

altacc 3y ago

Risks are comparative, moral panic is not and ignores this. Banning something because it is not 100% harmless is just not something that is done without extra considerations, such as a moralizing. E.g. Pain killers cause significantly more societal harm than puberty blockers but are still widely available. As to the real risks, time and again it has been shown that the comparative risks of a) receiving puberty blockers vs b) growing up a gender you do not feel you are, strongly points to puberty blockers being a significant net benefit. Those taking puberty blockers rarely regret it; whereas those growing up a gender they do not identify with mostly regret it are are significantly more prone to abuse, mental health issues and suicide.

transcoderx 3y ago
No it hasn't been shown time and time again. Look into the actual studies, and not just into the ones the trans lobby presents. The issue here is manipulation of children. If children were fed tons of harmful pain blockers, there would be a "panic", too.
- zrail 3y ago
  Kids get fed mountains of acetaminophen every year. Why do you suppose that acetaminophen packages have prominent warnings about not exceeding dosages? It's because acetaminophen is extremely hepatotoxic at levels not very far above the recommended dosages. > Hepatic injury and subsequent hepatic failure due to both intentional and non-intentional overdose of acetaminophen (APAP) has affected patients for decades, and [...] remains a global issue; in the United States, in particular, it accounts for more than 50% of overdose-related acute liver failure and approximately 20% of the liver transplant cases. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4913076/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4913076/ I would assert that acetaminophen is far more likely to be dangerous to far more children than puberty blockers and yet I don't see any moral panic over children's Tylenol.
  - transcoderx 3y ago
    Do you know of many cases of children being mutilated for life from Tylenol? Also your assertion is just a wild guess.