5 ms·

Before Outlook there were many, many options, which is kind of the point. You might be intrigued by something like All-In-1 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ALL-IN

Before Outlook there were many, many options, which is kind of the point. You might be intrigued by something like All-In-1 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ALL-IN-1 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ALL-IN-1 My own first email client was VMS Mail at uni in 1988, then pine when I started to use SunOS and Solaris every day for work. Lotus Notes was very big for a while too before the web killed it off.

skissane 3y ago
> Lotus Notes was very big for a while too before the web killed it off. I think the architecture of Notes/Domino was technically very interesting - a rapid application development environment incorporating a replicated document-oriented database, cross-platform GUI forms designer, and scripting language. And then that environment was used to build an email and calendaring application. Some customers bought it just for email and calendar, and ignored its potential as a platform for custom applications. Others used its application development features heavily. But I think part of its decline was that its potential as an application development environment/platform never received enough emphasis from IBM. IBM bought it for the email and calendaring - their mainframe-based groupware line (OfficeVision, PROFS, DISOSS, SNADS, etc) was really showing its age, and buying Lotus was their answer to that business problem. And that’s how they positioned it in the market, and that became the focus of their R&D investment. I remember people used to complain about how the Notes email UI was confusing - due to its cross-platform heritage, it didn’t use the same keyboard shortcuts as Microsoft apps, for example. (Something I believe they improved in newer versions.) Yet underneath that email client lay something powerful that its competitors (primarily Exchange and GroupWise) completely lacked I wonder what might have been, if IBM had positioned it more heavily as a platform for applications rather than just email+calendar - or if it had ended up with someone other than IBM? IBM didn’t really need an application platform because they already owned plenty (WebSphere, CICS, IMS, TPF, AS/400, VisualAge, Informix-4GL, Rational, SAA ADCycle, Cross System Product, UniData/UniVerse, EGL, PowerHouse 4GL, etc). Maybe it would have gone better with a company for whom it was their sole or primary application platform instead of just one among many? I’ve heard some suggestions that now HCL has bought it, they have a renewed interest in using it as an application platform compared to what IBM had. Even if that’s true, probably too late to make much of a difference-there are so many other options nowadays, arguably better.
- mxuribe 3y ago
  I hated using Lotus Notes for emailing and calendering! But, when someone showed me the application develoopment aspects, it was then i came to the conclusion that it was an amazing app-building platform, and a mediocre email/calendar app!
- rollthehard6 3y ago
  What you've said is pretty much what I always say about Notes, it was much more than Outlook and when Outlook took over I often wondered what folks did for all the things that Notes did that weren't just email and calendar. I wonder what is comparable now in the ability for someone not very technical to be able to knock up, say a simple change approval system? It sometimes seems with the loss of such things as Notes, Foxpro and Hypercard that it has become less easy for non-dev folks to create simple apps rather than more easy.
- wkat4242 3y ago
  Notes was pretty horrible for creating all sorts of legacy technical debt. Some handy Joe would create some database that would worm itself into critical business processes but be completely unmaintained. Of course this could be solved by policies but I've seen this happen in many organizations. It was also incredibly buggy. I'd be looking at a Java error dump several times a week. Especially once they integrated sametime into notes.
  - tablespoon 3y ago
    > Notes was pretty horrible for creating all sorts of legacy technical debt. Some handy Joe would create some database that would worm itself into critical business processes but be completely unmaintained. And is the "better" alternative is to avoid that "legacy technical debt" by forcing that "handy Joe" to keep doing things by hand, by denying him the tools to solve his problem? Because if you don't have the connections to get budget to pay a professional developer, you shouldn't be able to solve your problem with software? IMHO, it's better to think of those kinds of "handy Joe" apps as prototypes.
    - 3y ago

skissane 3y ago

> Lotus Notes was very big for a while too before the web killed it off. I think the architecture of Notes/Domino was technically very interesting - a rapid application development environment incorporating a replicated document-oriented database, cross-platform GUI forms designer, and scripting language. And then that environment was used to build an email and calendaring application. Some customers bought it just for email and calendar, and ignored its potential as a platform for custom applications. Others used its application development features heavily. But I think part of its decline was that its potential as an application development environment/platform never received enough emphasis from IBM. IBM bought it for the email and calendaring - their mainframe-based groupware line (OfficeVision, PROFS, DISOSS, SNADS, etc) was really showing its age, and buying Lotus was their answer to that business problem. And that’s how they positioned it in the market, and that became the focus of their R&D investment. I remember people used to complain about how the Notes email UI was confusing - due to its cross-platform heritage, it didn’t use the same keyboard shortcuts as Microsoft apps, for example. (Something I believe they improved in newer versions.) Yet underneath that email client lay something powerful that its competitors (primarily Exchange and GroupWise) completely lacked I wonder what might have been, if IBM had positioned it more heavily as a platform for applications rather than just email+calendar - or if it had ended up with someone other than IBM? IBM didn’t really need an application platform because they already owned plenty (WebSphere, CICS, IMS, TPF, AS/400, VisualAge, Informix-4GL, Rational, SAA ADCycle, Cross System Product, UniData/UniVerse, EGL, PowerHouse 4GL, etc). Maybe it would have gone better with a company for whom it was their sole or primary application platform instead of just one among many? I’ve heard some suggestions that now HCL has bought it, they have a renewed interest in using it as an application platform compared to what IBM had. Even if that’s true, probably too late to make much of a difference-there are so many other options nowadays, arguably better.

mxuribe 3y ago
I hated using Lotus Notes for emailing and calendering! But, when someone showed me the application develoopment aspects, it was then i came to the conclusion that it was an amazing app-building platform, and a mediocre email/calendar app!
rollthehard6 3y ago
What you've said is pretty much what I always say about Notes, it was much more than Outlook and when Outlook took over I often wondered what folks did for all the things that Notes did that weren't just email and calendar. I wonder what is comparable now in the ability for someone not very technical to be able to knock up, say a simple change approval system? It sometimes seems with the loss of such things as Notes, Foxpro and Hypercard that it has become less easy for non-dev folks to create simple apps rather than more easy.
wkat4242 3y ago
Notes was pretty horrible for creating all sorts of legacy technical debt. Some handy Joe would create some database that would worm itself into critical business processes but be completely unmaintained. Of course this could be solved by policies but I've seen this happen in many organizations. It was also incredibly buggy. I'd be looking at a Java error dump several times a week. Especially once they integrated sametime into notes.
- tablespoon 3y ago
  > Notes was pretty horrible for creating all sorts of legacy technical debt. Some handy Joe would create some database that would worm itself into critical business processes but be completely unmaintained. And is the "better" alternative is to avoid that "legacy technical debt" by forcing that "handy Joe" to keep doing things by hand, by denying him the tools to solve his problem? Because if you don't have the connections to get budget to pay a professional developer, you shouldn't be able to solve your problem with software? IMHO, it's better to think of those kinds of "handy Joe" apps as prototypes.
  - 3y ago