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This is essentially what I've done. The TV has never been connected to the Internet and my Apple TV drives everything. I would still have payed 2x to support a

This is essentially what I've done. The TV has never been connected to the Internet and my Apple TV drives everything. I would still have payed 2x to support a good dumb TV project and would love to do so in the future.

Koshkin 3y ago
But isn't a dumb TV + Apple TV pretty much the same as a smart TV? (I know, you avoid dealing with two "smarts," but still...)
- katbyte 3y ago
  Apple TV has no ads. Many (most?) smart tvs are full of them or tracking software
  - eertami 3y ago
    Why do you think Apple aren't tracking your usage of Apple TV, while assuming other smart devices are? iPhones are still spying on you, even if you tick the box to disable sharing of device analytics[0][1]. [0]: https://gizmodo.com/apple-iphone-analytics-tracking-even-when-off-app-store-1849757558 https://gizmodo.com/apple-iphone-analytics-tracking-even-whe... [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8JxvH80Rrcw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8JxvH80Rrcw
    - katbyte 3y ago
      Because they others have been shown to analyze what’s on the screen etc and to date Apple TV has not.
      - modderation 3y ago
        In the event that there is tracking, it seems to be well-built and doesn't interfere with the user experience.
- bee_rider 3y ago
  From a security or absolutist point of view, yeah. From a customer point of view — different companies have different reputations and market positions. We might all disagree about the exact level of faith we have in them, but Apple and Vizio or whoever seem to have different reputations, for whatever that is worth.
- iscrewyou 3y ago
  The irk for smart tvs comes from that fact that they show ads and slow down overtime. With Apple TV, you can nip that in the bud. Yes, Apple TV has its own quirks but it’s nowhere near as hostile as built in “functionality” that these tvs try to provide. And not say that streaming services have every incentive to keep the Apple TV apps improving compared to the tv app itself. It’s just an overall better experience.
- waboremo 3y ago
  Depends. A Smart TV is a category of TVs being sold. If you go into bestbuy asking for a Smart TV, you're not going to get a TV + streaming box/stick, just a "Smart TV" (although there is some obvious overlap here since TV makers have partnered with Fire TV and Roku). But when it comes to general conversation (and this context), yes it's the same. Unless you are actually using a niche setup of local streaming and the Apple TV box is just a nice interface you keep offline - don't know how well that works. For everyone else, they are just avoiding overlapping TV services, as relying on Apple or Google or Amazon is falling into the same traps.
- doctor_eval 3y ago
  The problem with smart TVs is that you can’t easily disable the offending software if you want to. The software is tightly coupled to the hardware. In some cases it will aggressively search for opportunities to spy on you. Worst case, Apple jumps the shark… you can just unplug it. You at least get to keep the display.
- kitsunesoba 3y ago
  The Apple TV’s hardware is wildly more powerful than that bundled in any smart TV. The current ATV 4K is running on the last gen flagship Apple SoC with a big passive heatsink attached while smart TVs use hardware comparable to that of a low-to-midrange Android phone from 2012-2014. Even the first gen ATV 4K from 2017 is several times more powerful than current smart TVs. That difference in power is felt quite a lot in the user experience.
  - Koshkin 3y ago
    I am not sure if "powerful" matters in this context though. (That is, I expect the chipsets built into TVs to be plenty powerful for their intended purpose.)
    - kitsunesoba 3y ago
      In many cases the SoCs used in TVs are so underpowered that they can’t render menu screens without frame drops, or if they can they lose that ability after a software update or two because there’s so little margin.
      - amlib 3y ago
        But on the other hand TV SoCs need to process the video signal at 4k 120hz 4:4:4 without dropping a single frame, although most if not all those tasks are most likely done by an ASIC embedded into the SoC. Would a modern but very cut down GPU be able to do this and also at a low enough power draw?
        illumin8 3y ago
        There's hardware transcoders on the chip that render your video stream. The menu system is just a terribly outdated Android SoC... the latency is entirely from the speed at which it can render the user interface and has nothing to do with how fast your 4K 120/240hz panel can draw a frame.
      - mtrower 3y ago
- meindnoch 3y ago
  Lol. No. A TV with Samsung MySmart™ HomeOS Android UltraCrap Edition is not the same as an AppleTV, if you care about things like, I don't know... consistent framerate? No random crashes? Bearable UI latency? Similarly how Apple CarPlay is not the same as car manufacturers' sorry-ass homegrown infotainment trash software.
BizarroLand 3y ago
I made the mistake of connecting my vizio to the internet after owning it for years. It was great for two days and then it downloaded an update that absolutely wrecked the interface. What was smooth and snappy and good enough for me now moves at a snails pace and the tv is practically unusable even after a factory reset. Opening the menu takes 2.5 seconds from button push to response on a good day for no reason other than vizio must have decided it was time for me to buy a new tv. I used to like their brand. Now I'll never buy another one again.

Koshkin 3y ago

But isn't a dumb TV + Apple TV pretty much the same as a smart TV? (I know, you avoid dealing with two "smarts," but still...)

katbyte 3y ago
Apple TV has no ads. Many (most?) smart tvs are full of them or tracking software
- eertami 3y ago
  Why do you think Apple aren't tracking your usage of Apple TV, while assuming other smart devices are? iPhones are still spying on you, even if you tick the box to disable sharing of device analytics[0][1]. [0]: https://gizmodo.com/apple-iphone-analytics-tracking-even-when-off-app-store-1849757558 https://gizmodo.com/apple-iphone-analytics-tracking-even-whe... [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8JxvH80Rrcw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8JxvH80Rrcw
  - katbyte 3y ago
    Because they others have been shown to analyze what’s on the screen etc and to date Apple TV has not.
    - modderation 3y ago
      In the event that there is tracking, it seems to be well-built and doesn't interfere with the user experience.
bee_rider 3y ago
From a security or absolutist point of view, yeah. From a customer point of view — different companies have different reputations and market positions. We might all disagree about the exact level of faith we have in them, but Apple and Vizio or whoever seem to have different reputations, for whatever that is worth.
iscrewyou 3y ago
The irk for smart tvs comes from that fact that they show ads and slow down overtime. With Apple TV, you can nip that in the bud. Yes, Apple TV has its own quirks but it’s nowhere near as hostile as built in “functionality” that these tvs try to provide. And not say that streaming services have every incentive to keep the Apple TV apps improving compared to the tv app itself. It’s just an overall better experience.
waboremo 3y ago
Depends. A Smart TV is a category of TVs being sold. If you go into bestbuy asking for a Smart TV, you're not going to get a TV + streaming box/stick, just a "Smart TV" (although there is some obvious overlap here since TV makers have partnered with Fire TV and Roku). But when it comes to general conversation (and this context), yes it's the same. Unless you are actually using a niche setup of local streaming and the Apple TV box is just a nice interface you keep offline - don't know how well that works. For everyone else, they are just avoiding overlapping TV services, as relying on Apple or Google or Amazon is falling into the same traps.
doctor_eval 3y ago
The problem with smart TVs is that you can’t easily disable the offending software if you want to. The software is tightly coupled to the hardware. In some cases it will aggressively search for opportunities to spy on you. Worst case, Apple jumps the shark… you can just unplug it. You at least get to keep the display.
kitsunesoba 3y ago
The Apple TV’s hardware is wildly more powerful than that bundled in any smart TV. The current ATV 4K is running on the last gen flagship Apple SoC with a big passive heatsink attached while smart TVs use hardware comparable to that of a low-to-midrange Android phone from 2012-2014. Even the first gen ATV 4K from 2017 is several times more powerful than current smart TVs. That difference in power is felt quite a lot in the user experience.
- Koshkin 3y ago
  I am not sure if "powerful" matters in this context though. (That is, I expect the chipsets built into TVs to be plenty powerful for their intended purpose.)
  - kitsunesoba 3y ago
    In many cases the SoCs used in TVs are so underpowered that they can’t render menu screens without frame drops, or if they can they lose that ability after a software update or two because there’s so little margin.
    - amlib 3y ago
      But on the other hand TV SoCs need to process the video signal at 4k 120hz 4:4:4 without dropping a single frame, although most if not all those tasks are most likely done by an ASIC embedded into the SoC. Would a modern but very cut down GPU be able to do this and also at a low enough power draw?
      - illumin8 3y ago
        There's hardware transcoders on the chip that render your video stream. The menu system is just a terribly outdated Android SoC... the latency is entirely from the speed at which it can render the user interface and has nothing to do with how fast your 4K 120/240hz panel can draw a frame.
    - mtrower 3y ago
meindnoch 3y ago
Lol. No. A TV with Samsung MySmart™ HomeOS Android UltraCrap Edition is not the same as an AppleTV, if you care about things like, I don't know... consistent framerate? No random crashes? Bearable UI latency? Similarly how Apple CarPlay is not the same as car manufacturers' sorry-ass homegrown infotainment trash software.

BizarroLand 3y ago

I made the mistake of connecting my vizio to the internet after owning it for years. It was great for two days and then it downloaded an update that absolutely wrecked the interface. What was smooth and snappy and good enough for me now moves at a snails pace and the tv is practically unusable even after a factory reset. Opening the menu takes 2.5 seconds from button push to response on a good day for no reason other than vizio must have decided it was time for me to buy a new tv. I used to like their brand. Now I'll never buy another one again.