5 ms·

Those are powered on when the laptop is on.

pclmulqdq 3y ago
Also all of these are minimum requirements. They don't actually imply much, except about the state of technology when the statement was written. Flash has been improving very quickly on all axes.
- jeffbee 3y ago
  And yet there are still people who will post about the good old days and the evils of MLC, as if current SSDs were not demonstrably better in every way.
  - ezconnect 3y ago
    I still remember the bubble memory system that would someday replace HDD back in the 80s
  - Robotbeat 3y ago
    They aren't. Write endurance is significantly lower than SLC, it's just compensated for by lots of write leveling.
    - pclmulqdq 3y ago
      They are better. SLC is improving as much as MLC. The ratio of speed, durability, and capacity is the same between SLC/MLC/TLC, but modern MLC is faster and more durable than 5-year-old SLC.
      - jeffbee 3y ago
        Exactly. And I do not care what the low-level bit performance is if the device-level performance is better.
      - rasz 3y ago
        >modern MLC is faster and more durable than 5-year-old SLC great April fools joke
        pclmulqdq 3y ago
        You are probably writing this from a computer using a TLC SSD. Outside of applications that need extreme latency, pure SLC has almost completely disappeared from the storage world. From materials science to management algorithms, a lot has advanced in flash technology in terms of durability.
        Tuna-Fish 3y ago
        It's true that TLC and MLC have for good reason displaced SLC. However, in no way are they even anywhere near the old SLC in durability. ~5 years old SLC literally had 100 times more write endurance (as in, how many times you can rewrite each bit, not total amount of writes in the drive) than typical modern TLC.
        pclmulqdq 3y ago
        That is pretty much true, and it's pretty much the only stat that hasn't improved. However, write endurance isn't really a factor in terms of data durability. It has to do more with the drive's ability to continue being written than with the safety of data that has already been written. If your drive goes read-only or loses capacity, that has to do with write endurance. Neither of those involve data loss.
      - rubatuga 3y ago
        Citation needed
    - userbinator 3y ago
      More precisely, endurance and retention become exponentially lower with each additional bit stored per cell, while capacity only increases multiplicatively.
NikolaNovak 3y ago
Right, but through which mechanism does that maKe a difference? Does controller periodically rewrite all contents? In other words how, does being powered-on increase retention of static data?
- Tuna-Fish 3y ago
  Yes, it does precisely that.

Also all of these are minimum requirements. They don't actually imply much, except about the state of technology when the statement was written. Flash has been improving very quickly on all axes.

jeffbee 3y ago
And yet there are still people who will post about the good old days and the evils of MLC, as if current SSDs were not demonstrably better in every way.
- ezconnect 3y ago
  I still remember the bubble memory system that would someday replace HDD back in the 80s
- Robotbeat 3y ago
  They aren't. Write endurance is significantly lower than SLC, it's just compensated for by lots of write leveling.
  - pclmulqdq 3y ago
    They are better. SLC is improving as much as MLC. The ratio of speed, durability, and capacity is the same between SLC/MLC/TLC, but modern MLC is faster and more durable than 5-year-old SLC.
    - jeffbee 3y ago
      Exactly. And I do not care what the low-level bit performance is if the device-level performance is better.
    - rasz 3y ago
      >modern MLC is faster and more durable than 5-year-old SLC great April fools joke
      - pclmulqdq 3y ago
        You are probably writing this from a computer using a TLC SSD. Outside of applications that need extreme latency, pure SLC has almost completely disappeared from the storage world. From materials science to management algorithms, a lot has advanced in flash technology in terms of durability.
        Tuna-Fish 3y ago
        It's true that TLC and MLC have for good reason displaced SLC. However, in no way are they even anywhere near the old SLC in durability. ~5 years old SLC literally had 100 times more write endurance (as in, how many times you can rewrite each bit, not total amount of writes in the drive) than typical modern TLC.
        pclmulqdq 3y ago
        That is pretty much true, and it's pretty much the only stat that hasn't improved. However, write endurance isn't really a factor in terms of data durability. It has to do more with the drive's ability to continue being written than with the safety of data that has already been written. If your drive goes read-only or loses capacity, that has to do with write endurance. Neither of those involve data loss.
    - rubatuga 3y ago
      Citation needed
  - userbinator 3y ago
    More precisely, endurance and retention become exponentially lower with each additional bit stored per cell, while capacity only increases multiplicatively.

NikolaNovak 3y ago

Right, but through which mechanism does that maKe a difference? Does controller periodically rewrite all contents? In other words how, does being powered-on increase retention of static data?

Tuna-Fish 3y ago
Yes, it does precisely that.