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Anyone who has been watching cops over the past few decades shouldn't find this at all surprising. Cops consistently believe themselves to be above the law and

Anyone who has been watching cops over the past few decades shouldn't find this at all surprising. Cops consistently believe themselves to be above the law and above oversight -- especially the NYPD, but the problem is in every precinct around the country. It's all cops.

jMyles 3y ago
[flagged]
- nemo44x 3y ago
  It’s interesting because I’ve been to many countries all over the world and of very different cultures and they all had police and prisons. Crazy that that are all just remnants of slave patrols I guess.
  - EngManagerIsMe 3y ago
    Uniformed police are a relatively recent invention. In the US and England, the police evolved predominantly out of a desire to socialize the costs of protect the capital interests of the wealthy. This was protecting warehouses and such for the north/Europe, and slave patrols in the south. (As, at that point in history, the slaves were considered property, not people.) Over time, the police merged -- some from slave patrol origins and some from protecting trade -- into uniformed organizations per city. Some directly trace their origins to slave patrols for sure though. Other parts of the world saw police evolve from things like shire reeves, the night watch, etc. All of which were considered pretty unpleasant responsibilities -- people would be required to put in a portion of their time as night watchmen, however the wealthy could pay others to take over their shifts. The evolution from "I'll pay you to take my shift because I'm too rich to work the night watch" to "I'll pay for the night watch to protect my stuff" to "wait, what if we had everyone pay for the watch to protect my stuff" is typically the path things went outside of slave owning societies. Edit: Responding to the Rome post here, because I apparently cannot create more posts right now: The Romans had a few police organizations, but they were either slaves (who in turn acted as slave patrols) called the Vigiles. Those weren't widespread across Roman cities. They were a small one time thing, eventually absorbed into the military. Mostly they were firefighters. The Cohortes Urbanae were a similar unit, explicitly part of the military that policed the city of Rome. They were more like riot cops than crime fighters though. Otherwise, in Roman populations they had night watches like most other European cities. A group of people who were charged with keeping the peace overnight. This was considered a deeply unpopular job in Rome, and was typically given to slaves to perform. The Triumiviri Nocturni, if you want to search for more information. But none of these are police forces -- they are either night watches pushed to those who had no other choice or they were military units. Using a military to keep the peace is very different from a police force.
    - nemo44x 3y ago
      What about civilizations like the Romans which had police?
- jimbob45 3y ago
  what we once called slave-patrols-and-plantations and which we now call police-and-prisons There’s been a huge resurgence across Reddit and HN today to resurrect Defund the Police and ACAB but implying police and prisons were invented after 1865 surely takes the cake.
  - malcolmgreaves 3y ago
    I believe the poster is talking more specifically, about the history and development of policing in the United States. > but implying police and prisons were invented after 1865 surely takes the cake I don't think they, nor anyone, is making this assertion. There is a direct lineage from modern day police departments to slave patrols. If it helps to understand it, think about Jim Crow laws of the 19th and 20th centuries. This set of laws criminalized being Black and were enforced by police.
  - EngManagerIsMe 3y ago
    The first uniformed police force came about in the 1850s. Prior to that, police forces weren't the central utility they are today. Yes, there were guards, but their roles, responsibilities, and behaviors were quite different. I posted a bit of history in a sibling comment, but it's not technically wrong to say that the 1800s was the century in which we got the police forces we have today. (But yes, obviously there were other institutions that predated them.)
Scubabear68 3y ago
Sorry, no. It’s not all cops. I know several people in law enforcement, most of them are very decent people and don’t do nasty things. If policing was as bad as some people want us to believe, we’d all be cowering in our homes afraid to go outside.
- scarface74 3y ago
  It is all cops. What are the chances that the “decent people you know” would actually report on their fellow police officers if they saw then doing something illegal?
- EngManagerIsMe 3y ago
  > most of them are very decent people and don’t do nasty things. That's not really the bar though. Police officers have exemplary powers, being the manifestation of the violence of the state. They must be held to a standard above "decent people". And being personable and friendly is not the mark of a good cop. A good cop needs to be willing to stand up for the right thing even if their peers are doing something wrong. That has been documented to be exceptionally rare in the police. Friendly, approachable police officers are still involved in systematic injustices too -- as long as the justice system punishes the poor and minorities more than others, the police are part of the problem. The police intake people into the justice system, and knowing this if they are targeting poor or minority people they are engaged in systematic problems. So a friendly "nice guy" cop can still be a problem.
- jksmith 3y ago
  1) Let me ask you, should I have respect for a cop because of the uniform, allowance to carry a gun, has a badge etc? I'm asking, because I really don't know how high the vetting standards are for cops. Are they that high? 2) Also, do cops respect other cops because they also wear a uniform, carry a badge, etc? In my second-hand experience, no. Some cops think other cops are a piece of shit, regardless of them being cops. 3) Here's a way to piss a cop off and get a ticket: say, "If you wanted to serve your community, you could have been a fireman." Being a cop is a shitty job that many cops I've met end up hating and they obsess over all the retirement mechanisms all the time - they talk about it incessantly. They also talk about how much people piss them off, how much other cops in their dept piss them off, etc. They hate the world to some degree, are very self-righteous as if they have some respect narcissism complex, and act like the only thing that keeps them from shooting or beating somebody is one more day closer to a full retirement and buying dogecoin to get rich. Ok, so to circle back around, anybody still believe in this cop respect sacred cow? Do you really feel completely safe from a cop when you're pulled over and you tell the cop you aren't rolling the window down all the way?

jMyles 3y ago

[flagged]

nemo44x 3y ago
It’s interesting because I’ve been to many countries all over the world and of very different cultures and they all had police and prisons. Crazy that that are all just remnants of slave patrols I guess.
- EngManagerIsMe 3y ago
  Uniformed police are a relatively recent invention. In the US and England, the police evolved predominantly out of a desire to socialize the costs of protect the capital interests of the wealthy. This was protecting warehouses and such for the north/Europe, and slave patrols in the south. (As, at that point in history, the slaves were considered property, not people.) Over time, the police merged -- some from slave patrol origins and some from protecting trade -- into uniformed organizations per city. Some directly trace their origins to slave patrols for sure though. Other parts of the world saw police evolve from things like shire reeves, the night watch, etc. All of which were considered pretty unpleasant responsibilities -- people would be required to put in a portion of their time as night watchmen, however the wealthy could pay others to take over their shifts. The evolution from "I'll pay you to take my shift because I'm too rich to work the night watch" to "I'll pay for the night watch to protect my stuff" to "wait, what if we had everyone pay for the watch to protect my stuff" is typically the path things went outside of slave owning societies. Edit: Responding to the Rome post here, because I apparently cannot create more posts right now: The Romans had a few police organizations, but they were either slaves (who in turn acted as slave patrols) called the Vigiles. Those weren't widespread across Roman cities. They were a small one time thing, eventually absorbed into the military. Mostly they were firefighters. The Cohortes Urbanae were a similar unit, explicitly part of the military that policed the city of Rome. They were more like riot cops than crime fighters though. Otherwise, in Roman populations they had night watches like most other European cities. A group of people who were charged with keeping the peace overnight. This was considered a deeply unpopular job in Rome, and was typically given to slaves to perform. The Triumiviri Nocturni, if you want to search for more information. But none of these are police forces -- they are either night watches pushed to those who had no other choice or they were military units. Using a military to keep the peace is very different from a police force.
  - nemo44x 3y ago
    What about civilizations like the Romans which had police?
jimbob45 3y ago
what we once called slave-patrols-and-plantations and which we now call police-and-prisons There’s been a huge resurgence across Reddit and HN today to resurrect Defund the Police and ACAB but implying police and prisons were invented after 1865 surely takes the cake.
- malcolmgreaves 3y ago
  I believe the poster is talking more specifically, about the history and development of policing in the United States. > but implying police and prisons were invented after 1865 surely takes the cake I don't think they, nor anyone, is making this assertion. There is a direct lineage from modern day police departments to slave patrols. If it helps to understand it, think about Jim Crow laws of the 19th and 20th centuries. This set of laws criminalized being Black and were enforced by police.
- EngManagerIsMe 3y ago
  The first uniformed police force came about in the 1850s. Prior to that, police forces weren't the central utility they are today. Yes, there were guards, but their roles, responsibilities, and behaviors were quite different. I posted a bit of history in a sibling comment, but it's not technically wrong to say that the 1800s was the century in which we got the police forces we have today. (But yes, obviously there were other institutions that predated them.)

Scubabear68 3y ago

Sorry, no. It’s not all cops. I know several people in law enforcement, most of them are very decent people and don’t do nasty things. If policing was as bad as some people want us to believe, we’d all be cowering in our homes afraid to go outside.

scarface74 3y ago
It is all cops. What are the chances that the “decent people you know” would actually report on their fellow police officers if they saw then doing something illegal?
EngManagerIsMe 3y ago
> most of them are very decent people and don’t do nasty things. That's not really the bar though. Police officers have exemplary powers, being the manifestation of the violence of the state. They must be held to a standard above "decent people". And being personable and friendly is not the mark of a good cop. A good cop needs to be willing to stand up for the right thing even if their peers are doing something wrong. That has been documented to be exceptionally rare in the police. Friendly, approachable police officers are still involved in systematic injustices too -- as long as the justice system punishes the poor and minorities more than others, the police are part of the problem. The police intake people into the justice system, and knowing this if they are targeting poor or minority people they are engaged in systematic problems. So a friendly "nice guy" cop can still be a problem.
jksmith 3y ago
1) Let me ask you, should I have respect for a cop because of the uniform, allowance to carry a gun, has a badge etc? I'm asking, because I really don't know how high the vetting standards are for cops. Are they that high? 2) Also, do cops respect other cops because they also wear a uniform, carry a badge, etc? In my second-hand experience, no. Some cops think other cops are a piece of shit, regardless of them being cops. 3) Here's a way to piss a cop off and get a ticket: say, "If you wanted to serve your community, you could have been a fireman." Being a cop is a shitty job that many cops I've met end up hating and they obsess over all the retirement mechanisms all the time - they talk about it incessantly. They also talk about how much people piss them off, how much other cops in their dept piss them off, etc. They hate the world to some degree, are very self-righteous as if they have some respect narcissism complex, and act like the only thing that keeps them from shooting or beating somebody is one more day closer to a full retirement and buying dogecoin to get rich. Ok, so to circle back around, anybody still believe in this cop respect sacred cow? Do you really feel completely safe from a cop when you're pulled over and you tell the cop you aren't rolling the window down all the way?