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ToS are not the law. It would be similar to your power company claiming copyright over the code written using "their" electricity. Not going to happen. I wouldn

by rnosov 3y ago

ToS are not the law. It would be similar to your power company claiming copyright over the code written using "their" electricity. Not going to happen. I wouldn't be too concerned.

Spivak 3y ago
Especially when OpenAI explicitly doesn't have a claim to copyright on the model output.
sp332 3y ago
No, but you could be banned from using OpenAI products in the future, which seems like quite a liability for a researcher or company.
- rnosov 3y ago
  That would be anticompetitive practice that is actually against the law in many countries[1]. In the unlikely event of OpenAI ever engaging in such things they will be sued into oblivion. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refusal_to_deal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refusal_to_deal
  - iudqnolq 3y ago
    No it wouldn't. Wikipedia has a crap definition that inexplicably focuses on cartels where multiple companies coordinate the refusal, which this definitely isn't. The FTC has a better definition for US law [1]. Companies routinely ban users for ToS violations. Just look at any thread about Google on here to see people complaining about it. [1]: https://www.ftc.gov/advice-guidance/competition-guidance/guide-antitrust-laws/single-firm-conduct/refusal-deal https://www.ftc.gov/advice-guidance/competition-guidance/gui...
    - rnosov 3y ago
      The FTC link has an example of the only newspaper in town refusing to deal with customers who are also running ads on a radio station. Do you think if the newspaper dressed such refusal as a ToS violation it would fly with FTC? Google might be banning people for enforceable violations of their ToS but imagine the uproar if they banned a Bing engineer for using Google search to find solutions for some Bing problem (which is similar to the problem here). The upside for Google or OpenAI would be somewhat limited but the downside is almost boundless.

by rnosov 3y ago

ToS are not the law. It would be similar to your power company claiming copyright over the code written using "their" electricity. Not going to happen. I wouldn't be too concerned.

Spivak 3y ago

Especially when OpenAI explicitly doesn't have a claim to copyright on the model output.

sp332 3y ago

No, but you could be banned from using OpenAI products in the future, which seems like quite a liability for a researcher or company.

rnosov 3y ago
That would be anticompetitive practice that is actually against the law in many countries[1]. In the unlikely event of OpenAI ever engaging in such things they will be sued into oblivion. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refusal_to_deal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refusal_to_deal
- iudqnolq 3y ago
  No it wouldn't. Wikipedia has a crap definition that inexplicably focuses on cartels where multiple companies coordinate the refusal, which this definitely isn't. The FTC has a better definition for US law [1]. Companies routinely ban users for ToS violations. Just look at any thread about Google on here to see people complaining about it. [1]: https://www.ftc.gov/advice-guidance/competition-guidance/guide-antitrust-laws/single-firm-conduct/refusal-deal https://www.ftc.gov/advice-guidance/competition-guidance/gui...
  - rnosov 3y ago
    The FTC link has an example of the only newspaper in town refusing to deal with customers who are also running ads on a radio station. Do you think if the newspaper dressed such refusal as a ToS violation it would fly with FTC? Google might be banning people for enforceable violations of their ToS but imagine the uproar if they banned a Bing engineer for using Google search to find solutions for some Bing problem (which is similar to the problem here). The upside for Google or OpenAI would be somewhat limited but the downside is almost boundless.